What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

[shinji]

EDIT: The video has been uploaded on the book of faces. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150948596553283

"Rain in qualifying has put the McLarens on the 2nd row" - yeah, because obviously only a fluky qualifying could put Button anywhere near that.

Also, why is it a night race?

[tkcom]

That Acrh... I wouldn't want to be near Maldonado when going through it.

[mario]

Yeah, I saw that too. But I don't think Bernie's suggestion is solely to build hype for Santander.

Not to mention that this must be the first time ever that Bernie has hinted that he would fund a race himself - the race in New Jersey is not coming for free, and even Monaco pays a small fee for its place on the calendar (OK, Monaco is heavily subsidised by other circuits so its final bill is still very low, but it still has to pay). Why, when other equally iconic cities are having to pay for such an event, would Bernie suddenly be so accommodating with London?

Looking at this, I cannot help but suspect that a comment Joe Saward made is probably closer to the mark - that Bernie's proposal for a race in London have been very effective at knocking the damning comments that were made by the prosecution and the judge in Gribkowsky's trial out of the headlines, as well as the reports that the Inland Revenue have contacted Bernie to ask him a few things based on Gribkowsky's testimony. It seems to have had a limited benefit, although the news that the German and British authorities may make further enquiries won't disappear soon. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100764

[RealRacingRoots]

Yeah, I saw that too. But I don't think Bernie's suggestion is solely to build hype for Santander.

Not to mention that this must be the first time ever that Bernie has hinted that he would fund a race himself - the race in New Jersey is not coming for free, and even Monaco pays a small fee for its place on the calendar (OK, Monaco is heavily subsidised by other circuits so its final bill is still very low, but it still has to pay). Why, when other equally iconic cities are having to pay for such an event, would Bernie suddenly be so accommodating with London?

Looking at this, I cannot help but suspect that a comment Joe Saward made is probably closer to the mark - that Bernie's proposal for a race in London have been very effective at knocking the damning comments that were made by the prosecution and the judge in Gribkowsky's trial out of the headlines, as well as the reports that the Inland Revenue have contacted Bernie to ask him a few things based on Gribkowsky's testimony. It seems to have had a limited benefit, although the news that the German and British authorities may make further enquiries won't disappear soon. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100764

Off Topic: I'm fairly sure I wanted to ban that name from F1R, because I've seen too much of him here and he berates HRT too much.

JSNSNBM

[eurobrun]

Yeah, I saw that too. But I don't think Bernie's suggestion is solely to build hype for Santander.

Not to mention that this must be the first time ever that Bernie has hinted that he would fund a race himself - the race in New Jersey is not coming for free, and even Monaco pays a small fee for its place on the calendar (OK, Monaco is heavily subsidised by other circuits so its final bill is still very low, but it still has to pay). Why, when other equally iconic cities are having to pay for such an event, would Bernie suddenly be so accommodating with London?

Looking at this, I cannot help but suspect that a comment Joe Saward made is probably closer to the mark - that Bernie's proposal for a race in London have been very effective at knocking the damning comments that were made by the prosecution and the judge in Gribkowsky's trial out of the headlines, as well as the reports that the Inland Revenue have contacted Bernie to ask him a few things based on Gribkowsky's testimony. It seems to have had a limited benefit, although the news that the German and British authorities may make further enquiries won't disappear soon. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100764

Off Topic: I'm fairly sure I wanted to ban that name from F1R, because I've seen too much of him here and he berates HRT too much.

JSNSNBM

Captain Hammer will probably second this.

[WaffleCat]

I absolutely love the track except for the arch at the end.Maybe a bit too unrealistic...

[RealRacingRoots]

I absolutely love the track except for the arch at the end.Maybe a bit too unrealistic...

If you've played the PGR games on Xbox, some of the London tracks feature the arch. The difference there is that all 3 arches are open. The left one should be the beginning of pit open, with the other two being the race track.

[CoopsII]

I for my part am very much in favour of that race happening and replacing Silverstone as soon as possible.

2020?

[Captain Hammer]

Why, when other equally iconic cities are having to pay for such an event, would Bernie suddenly be so accommodating with London?

Why not?

Bernie usually does whatever it takes to get a race going. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a clever ploy to get someone else to pay for the race, by getting enough interested parties involved that he doesn't actually have to pay anything himself. And, of course, there are projections that say the event would earn all its expenses back, so it's not like Bernie would be out of pocket after all is said and done.

I cannot help but suspect that a comment Joe Saward made is probably closer to the mark - that Bernie's proposal for a race in London have been very effective at knocking the damning comments that were made by the prosecution and the judge in Gribkowsky's trial out of the headlines

I wasn't aware that doesn't mean Bernie cannot be sincere when he says he would be willing to pay for it.

as well as the reports that the Inland Revenue have contacted Bernie to ask him a few things based on Gribkowsky's testimony.

Bernie has said that he expected Inland Revenue to contact him, and that he would be more concerned if they didn't.

The tax issues Gribkowsky allegedly threatened to go to Inland Revenue with unless Bernie paid up probably relate to some of his dealings in the developing world where bribery isn't simply acceptable, but a common business practice and a simple fact of everyday life. For example, if you send a package in Mexico, you pay the attendant a little extra to make sure the package goes through.

[CoopsII]

I cannot see how it could turn a profit once all the costs of staging it are paid for. I also cant see how the centre of London could close for three days with the added disruption of having the crash barriers, pits etc installed which would also be expensive. It seems that Capt Hammer has taken on the role of London GP Ambassador on here and his/her patriotism is to be admired but as with most things Bernie I sense that all isnt as it appears.

[mario]

Why, when other equally iconic cities are having to pay for such an event, would Bernie suddenly be so accommodating with London?

Why not?

Bernie usually does whatever it takes to get a race going. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a clever ploy to get someone else to pay for the race, by getting enough interested parties involved that he doesn't actually have to pay anything himself. And, of course, there are projections that say the event would earn all its expenses back, so it's not like Bernie would be out of pocket after all is said and done.

Perhaps that is the case, but it still feels like a slightly odd way of going about the deal.

There hasn't really been that much of a clamour for a London GP because there is the British GP at Silverstone, even if interest in Formula 1 is quite high at the moment (although the deal between Sky and the BBC has had a negative impact on the viewing figures for some races, so that may eat into the current interest in the sport). The last private consortium that tried to organise a London GP went bankrupt because nobody was interested in funding the event, and given that both public and private finances are already strained due to the Olympics, I question whether there would be that much financial support for the event from external bodies.

as well as the reports that the Inland Revenue have contacted Bernie to ask him a few things based on Gribkowsky's testimony.

Bernie has said that he expected Inland Revenue to contact him, and that he would be more concerned if they didn't.

The tax issues Gribkowsky allegedly threatened to go to Inland Revenue with unless Bernie paid up probably relate to some of his dealings in the developing world where bribery isn't simply acceptable, but a common business practice and a simple fact of everyday life. For example, if you send a package in Mexico, you pay the attendant a little extra to make sure the package goes through.

If that were the case, given that recent anti-corruption measures (mostly targeted towards the construction sector, but covering other areas as well) give the UK Government the power to prosecute any UK citizen involved in acts of corruption abroad, would that not see the Crown Prosecution Service rather than the Inland Revenue getting involved given that we would be moving into the realm of a criminal investigation?

Besides, the recent details suggest something with greater personal repercussions for Bernie, as Gribkowsky was reportedly planning to go to the Inland Revenue with details about the trust fund, the Bambino Trust, and its relationship with Bernie (officially, Slavica, Bernie's former wife, was in control of the trust, not Bernie, but it has been suggested that Gribkowsky had evidence to show that wasn't the case).

[Captain Hammer]

There hasn't really been that much of a clamour for a London GP because there is the British GP at Silverstone, even if interest in Formula 1 is quite high at the moment (although the deal between Sky and the BBC has had a negative impact on the viewing figures for some races, so that may eat into the current interest in the sport). The last private consortium that tried to organise a London GP went bankrupt because nobody was interested in funding the event, and given that both public and private finances are already strained due to the Olympics, I question whether there would be that much financial support for the event from external bodies.

Bernie has been interested in a London Grand Prix for years now. And he clearly thinks that demand is there. After all, 400,000 people saw the demonstration run on the streets in 2004, which is about twice as many people as attend the British Grand Prix. He admits he came close to a deal with the City of Westminster a few years ago, but the cost made it impossible. He probably figures that if he can put up the money - or at least part of it - and make most, if not all of it, back.

If that were the case, given that recent anti-corruption measures (mostly targeted towards the construction sector, but covering other areas as well) give the UK Government the power to prosecute any UK citizen involved in acts of corruption abroad, would that not see the Crown Prosecution Service rather than the Inland Revenue getting involved given that we would be moving into the realm of a criminal investigation?

Until we know the exact details, we can only speculate. I'm guessing that whatever Gribkowsky threatened to go to Inland Revenue with was questionable, but not necessarily illegal. If they got involved, Bernie would likely come out unscathed, but the inconvenience of the whole investigation - which would undoubtedly take a long time to be concluded - would slow down the growth of the sport. That is probably where the real threat lay, rather than the fear of criminal prosecution.

Besides, the recent details suggest something with greater personal repercussions for Bernie, as Gribkowsky was reportedly planning to go to the Inland Revenue with details about the trust fund, the Bambino Trust, and its relationship with Bernie (officially, Slavica, Bernie's former wife, was in control of the trust, not Bernie, but it has been suggested that Gribkowsky had evidence to show that wasn't the case).

Gribkowsky isn't the most credible witness in the world. Anything that he says is tainted by the way Bernie testified against him. If the prosecutors want to press charges against Bernie, they're going to need more than Gribkowsky's word. Any competent defence lawyer would be able to discredit Gribkowsky in the space of two minutes.

[CoopsII]

After all, 400,000 people saw the demonstration run on the streets in 2004, which is about twice as many people as attend the British Grand Prix.

Except that was free and the British GP isnt.

[mario]

There hasn't really been that much of a clamour for a London GP because there is the British GP at Silverstone, even if interest in Formula 1 is quite high at the moment (although the deal between Sky and the BBC has had a negative impact on the viewing figures for some races, so that may eat into the current interest in the sport). The last private consortium that tried to organise a London GP went bankrupt because nobody was interested in funding the event, and given that both public and private finances are already strained due to the Olympics, I question whether there would be that much financial support for the event from external bodies.

Bernie has been interested in a London Grand Prix for years now. And he clearly thinks that demand is there. After all, 400,000 people saw the demonstration run on the streets in 2004, which is about twice as many people as attend the British Grand Prix. He admits he came close to a deal with the City of Westminster a few years ago, but the cost made it impossible. He probably figures that if he can put up the money - or at least part of it - and make most, if not all of it, back.

The problems are not just financial though (and as CoopsII points out, the demonstration run was a free event whereas a general admission ticket for the British GP will set you back £155) - there are also considerable logistical issues to overcome, since you would be closing down a large section of central London for three to four days (the three day race weekend and an additional day for the teams to set up their base of operations).
Added to that, I can't see such a proposal being a vote winner for Boris Johnson because of the severe disruption it would cause to London's transport network, so support from the Mayor of London's office is likely to be limited (Boris Johnson has only made vague comments at most to support the proposal). I just cannot see an event that is likely to only have vague political support at best and a questionable economic base being successful (with seating being much more limited than a purpose built track - at Singapore, for example, they are limited to around 80,000 spectators - the ticket prices would have to be quite considerable to even break even), and at the moment I am inclined to treat it as mere PR.

[Captain Hammer]

And I agree whole-heartedly - if we're talking about a race on the circuit proposed by Santander.

However, there was another proposal a few days ago for a race around the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park. That is certainly something that is feasible without shutting down the centre of the city.

[nome66]

yes but the route they had in mind was a little.... interesting
http://www.gdecarli.it/php/circuit.php?var1=4964&var2=2

[JeremyMcClean]

yes but the route they had in mind was a little.... interesting
http://www.gdecarli.it/php/circuit.php?var1=4964&var2=2

In other words, a Tilkedrome.

Wonderful.

[mario]

And I agree whole-heartedly - if we're talking about a race on the circuit proposed by Santander.

However, there was another proposal a few days ago for a race around the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park. That is certainly something that is feasible without shutting down the centre of the city.

There is a proposal for part of the Olympic Park complex, although most observers believe that it is much more likely that the key stadium will be converted into a football/athletics venue.

According to The Independent, although a bid was submitted for a temporary race track from a company called Intelligent Transport Services Ltd, there has been no confirmation that the proposal for a temporary racetrack will make the final shortlist after the authorities decided to extent the tender phase.
Even if it does, the odds of it winning are pretty remote as it would require some quite heavy engineering work for the site to be fit for a race track (making it one of the more expensive options for redevelopment), and very little effort has been made to tie the track into the longer term plans from the local authorities for residential developments centred around a commercial/educational nexus (the other proposals would see either a commercial hub built around a combined football and athletics venue or a new campus for the University of East London). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... tlist.html

[Captain Hammer]

I see no reason why the race, the university and the football club cannot co-exist. The football club would use the stadium, and probably some of the other Olympic venues (like the aquatic centre) for training. The university would use the rest, probably turning the Olympic Village into student accomodation or some such. And the race could use the roads built around the site for one weekend in the year.

[East Londoner]

Here is the latest grand prix location proposed by Bernie.

[eurobrun]

Here is the latest grand prix location proposed by Bernie.

I have always wanted this location to get a GP

[dr-baker]

Here is the latest grand prix location proposed by Bernie.

Well, the recent cimematic documentary, Iron Sky demonstrates that it is indeed colonised, with something of a road and monorail infrastructure. I am sure that the locals would be happy to host a sport dominated by Caucasian males, and would be 'over the moon' if the blond, blue-eyed German, Nico Rosberg, were to win the race for Mercedes, evoking the GP results of the late 1930s. The cars will have to be adapted to run on Helium-3, but I'm sure that may actually help with F1's green credentials, investing in new fuel sources.

[mario]

I see no reason why the race, the university and the football club cannot co-exist. The football club would use the stadium, and probably some of the other Olympic venues (like the aquatic centre) for training. The university would use the rest, probably turning the Olympic Village into student accomodation or some such. And the race could use the roads built around the site for one weekend in the year.

You are keen to try to find a way for this race to exist, aren't you?

As I understand things, no, the proposal for a race track would not be compatible with the other bids as it would require demolishing infrastructure that the other bids rely on (the main stadium, for example, would be partially demolished to convert it into a grandstand).

[Ataxia]

I see no reason why the race, the university and the football club cannot co-exist. The football club would use the stadium, and probably some of the other Olympic venues (like the aquatic centre) for training. The university would use the rest, probably turning the Olympic Village into student accomodation or some such. And the race could use the roads built around the site for one weekend in the year.

You are keen to try to find a way for this race to exist, aren't you?

As I understand things, no, the proposal for a race track would not be compatible with the other bids as it would require demolishing infrastructure that the other bids rely on (the main stadium, for example, would be partially demolished to convert it into a grandstand).

A London GP wouldn't work at all. Mainly because of Health and Safety, and the fact there'd have to be two winners' trophies as Boris Johnson will invariably drop one.

And drivers would have to stop every now and then to pay congestion charge...

[Captain Hammer]

You are keen to try to find a way for this race to exist, aren't you?

I always welcome new races. Or the idea of new races. I was enthusiastic for the likes of Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Valencia until about two minutes after the inaugural races.

As I understand things, no, the proposal for a race track would not be compatible with the other bids as it would require demolishing infrastructure that the other bids rely on (the main stadium, for example, would be partially demolished to convert it into a grandstand).

The proposal could always be adjusted.

[eurobrun]

And drivers would have to stop every now and then to pay congestion charge...

That is quite possibly the best thing I have read all day

[mario]

You are keen to try to find a way for this race to exist, aren't you?

I always welcome new races. Or the idea of new races. I was enthusiastic for the likes of Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Valencia until about two minutes after the inaugural races.

Fair enough then, I guess that we shall agree to disagree since I am personally of the opinion that the talk of a race in London is just a load of hot air to stir up favourable headlines. They told Sir Stirling Moss that a London GP was just around the corner when he was racing back in the 1950's, so the idea is nothing new, but every single time it has come up the proposals fell apart quite quickly, and I cannot see the current proposal being waived through even if it was amended (and amending it would not be a trivial process).

[FullMetalJack]

You are keen to try to find a way for this race to exist, aren't you?

I always welcome new races. Or the idea of new races. I was enthusiastic for the likes of Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Valencia until about two minutes after the inaugural races.

Fair enough then, I guess that we shall agree to disagree since I am personally of the opinion that the talk of a race in London is just a load of hot air to stir up favourable headlines. They told Sir Stirling Moss that a London GP was just around the corner when he was racing back in the 1950's, so the idea is nothing new, but every single time it has come up the proposals fell apart quite quickly, and I cannot see the current proposal being waived through even if it was amended (and amending it would not be a trivial process).

Let's have the Birmingham Superprix back, as a Grand Prix this time then.

Although the track would have to be different, apparently some of the roads aren't there anymore.

[East Londoner]

If we are to have a London GP, then I demand that it is held around the streets where my forum name is derived from!

Seriously though, I want this to happen. I live just 2 hours away from London...

[AdrianSutil]

If we are to have a London GP, then I demand that it is held around the streets where my forum name is derived from!

Seriously though, I want this to happen. I live just 2 hours away from London...

And I'm just an hour. Plus I've already seen Formula1 cars in London when they did the demo runs several years ago. Great day out, I was only about 17 and went up on my own and hung around with a load of Australian and Italians



And had an argument with a Spaniard..

[eurobrun]

If we are to have a London GP, then I demand that it is held around the streets where my forum name is derived from!

Seriously though, I want this to happen. I live just 2 hours away from London...

When I first saw your username, I thought you were South African

[dr-baker]

If we are to have a London GP, then I demand that it is held around the streets where my forum name is derived from!

Seriously though, I want this to happen. I live just 2 hours away from London...

And I'm just an hour.

And I am half-an-hour away! (At least from my parents to the East End. My university is in the far north-west of London.) Would love a London GP, but I just don't see it happening.

[eurobrun]

If we are to have a London GP, then I demand that it is held around the streets where my forum name is derived from!

Seriously though, I want this to happen. I live just 2 hours away from London...

And I'm just an hour.

And I am half-an-hour away! (At least from my parents to the East End. My university is in the far north-west of London.) Would love a London GP, but I just don't see it happening.

I can't see it happening either.

[Boomstick]

Here is the latest grand prix location proposed by Bernie.

Well, the recent cimematic documentary, Iron Sky demonstrates that it is indeed colonised, with something of a road and monorail infrastructure. I am sure that the locals would be happy to host a sport dominated by Caucasian males, and would be 'over the moon' if the blond, blue-eyed German, Nico Rosberg, were to win the race for Mercedes, evoking the GP results of the late 1930s. The cars will have to be adapted to run on Helium-3, but I'm sure that may actually help with F1's green credentials, investing in new fuel sources.

I have access to both Hydrogen-3 and Helium-3 at work, will it help me make my Holden VL Turbo work better? Should I be contacting a F1 team? Career advise time guys....

[eurobrun]

Here is the latest grand prix location proposed by Bernie.

Well, the recent cimematic documentary, Iron Sky demonstrates that it is indeed colonised, with something of a road and monorail infrastructure. I am sure that the locals would be happy to host a sport dominated by Caucasian males, and would be 'over the moon' if the blond, blue-eyed German, Nico Rosberg, were to win the race for Mercedes, evoking the GP results of the late 1930s. The cars will have to be adapted to run on Helium-3, but I'm sure that may actually help with F1's green credentials, investing in new fuel sources.

I have access to both Hydrogen-3 and Helium-3 at work, will it help me make my Holden VL Turbo work better? Should I be contacting a F1 team? Career advise time guys....

They made a Turbo VL Holden?

[East Londoner]

As this appears to be the thread discussing the London Grand Prix, here is some intriguing news concerning the Olympic Stadium. It is officially being considered to be turned into an F1 venue.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101255

[mario]

As this appears to be the thread discussing the London Grand Prix, here is some intriguing news concerning the Olympic Stadium. It is officially being considered to be turned into an F1 venue.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101255

It is true that the proposal is being put forward to the next stage (which in many ways is old news - it was already under consideration before the London Legacy Development Corporation (LLDC) extended the deadline slightly), and it is true that more than one proposal could be adopted as part of the future use of the site (in theory leaving the organisers with a way of running a race there). However, it is worth noting that another proposal has already been declared as the "preferred bidder", so I would not let your hopes get too high on that front: yes, it is not unknown for bidders other than the "preferred bidder" to be awarded contracts in the construction industry, but it is unlikely that the LLDC would go against that decision.

[nome66]

i noticed when Google Earth's satellite images of london were updated from May of this year, some of the roads around the Olympic Park are already starting to look like main straights with pit lanes. my question: which one would they use?

[eurobrun]

Please don't be another Tilkedrome.

[Kobacrashi]

I have done quite a bit of work on the olympic park as an engineer and can tell you the perimeter road would make a pretty good race track as there is plenty of elevation change and a nice few bridges and tunnels. Also there would be a very nice section running through the stadium and over the moat which would look pretty cool. As long as they got rid of the security check point every 400yds it would be a great track.

With regards with the decision on what to do with the park, the velodrome, aquatics and all arenas have already had their future decided, it is only the stadium whose future is undecided. The athletes village will become a new town/housing area if you like with the houses slated for conversion into flats/apartments and ready to be occupied in 2014. But the whole park as in the ground around all arenas has been designated a London green zone, and although only a fantasy I could see a London GP around this park as in the same way that the Australian GP opertates IE a semi permanent circuit and a minimum amount of disruption for the year as stratford is out of the way of central London and wouldn't involve shutting London for 6 weeks which will never happen. And as Bernie likes to do, give 2 GP to countries with successful drivers alas Spain and Germany.