The Formula 1 Rejects Teams Association (F1RTA) Thread

[AndreaModa]

Interesting proposals all round. I agree with others that Aerond's initial proposal is flawed in some aspects, but the actual concept of changing the system could be a good one. Shizuka's suggested credit table is more reasonable, but again raises the problem of top teams collecting quick cash whilst small teams must wait.

SuperAguri's balancing system, making top teams wait longer for payouts, has a good potential, so small teams can capitalise on quick cash, whilst top teams can still earn money if they want, but have to wait longer to get it.

Ultimately though, the whole original concept from Aerond was to introduce realism into the series, that much is obvious. I'm not buying into favouritism or anything like that, it's just an attempt to replicate real-world situations. The question is, do members want the series to resemble some form of realism, or do we want it to be as fair and balanced as possible, and thus discarding that realism? There are already a large number of balancing systems in place to bring the smaller teams closer to the front, like the pre-qualifying cup, the reversed TV money prize structure, etc, and I think that any decision on something like a change to the pay driver rules needs to wait until at least mid-season of 2015, so we can get a good idea of how the new changes that are coming into effect will impact on the grid and the smaller teams. It would be incredibly foolish to decide on something now, and then see that it's unnecessary alongside what we already have.

We definitely need further discussion on it though if people feel it's something that can be developed, so let's keep it to that for the time being.

[JeremyMcClean]

I think the credits should be as even as possible so that everybody gets a fair chance of getting the same upgrades, etc.

Here's another thing I've thought up: Make all the top 6 teams buy new chassis and engines. That way, they don't dominate for five seasons with the same engine/chassis lineup, much like DGNgineering is doing right now. It would also give smaller teams a better chance to catch up to the bigger teams. At least that's my theory.

[the Masked Lapwing]

I think the credits should be as even as possible so that everybody gets a fair chance of getting the same upgrades, etc.

Here's another thing I've thought up: Make all the top 6 teams buy new chassis and engines. That way, they don't dominate for five seasons with the same engine/chassis lineup, much like DGNgineering is doing right now. It would also give smaller teams a better chance to catch up to the bigger teams. At least that's my theory.

If we look at the top 6 teams from 2014, DGNgineering used a different chassis than in 2013, MRT used a different engine, both of them as well as Sunshine will have to change engines for 2015 anyway and Jones used a different chassis as well. Only ENB and Kamaha kept (and can keep) the same combination.

[eurobrun]

For some reason Gillet has been really anonymous for the whole of their existence. I never really notice them despite usually being at the front

[tommykl]

For some reason Gillet has been really anonymous for the whole of their existence. I never really notice them despite usually being at the front

That's the result of unreliability, boy

Seriously, 17 retirements???? At least with the ban on turbos we'll get a slightly better chance at the title. If not, then I'll change my chassis-engine combo.

[Wizzie]

I think the credits should be as even as possible so that everybody gets a fair chance of getting the same upgrades, etc.

Here's another thing I've thought up: Make all the top 6 teams buy new chassis and engines. That way, they don't dominate for five seasons with the same engine/chassis lineup, much like DGNgineering is doing right now. It would also give smaller teams a better chance to catch up to the bigger teams. At least that's my theory.

If we look at the top 6 teams from 2014, DGNgineering used a different chassis than in 2013, MRT used a different engine, both of them as well as Sunshine will have to change engines for 2015 anyway and Jones used a different chassis as well. Only ENB and Kamaha kept (and can keep) the same combination.

And ENB fell back by keeping the same combination anyway. And of the top 6 from 2013, you yourself changed your engine and HRT changed their chassis (to great detriment )

For some reason Gillet has been really anonymous for the whole of their existence. I never really notice them despite usually being at the front

That's the result of unreliability, boy

Seriously, 17 retirements???? At least with the ban on turbos we'll get a slightly better chance at the title. If not, then I'll change my chassis-engine combo.

Nah. You won't have the ultimate pace to have a real shot at the title. Hence why I'm at a loss to explain why Mr Jones thinks you'll be remotely competitive this year

[tommykl]

For some reason Gillet has been really anonymous for the whole of their existence. I never really notice them despite usually being at the front

That's the result of unreliability, boy

Seriously, 17 retirements???? At least with the ban on turbos we'll get a slightly better chance at the title. If not, then I'll change my chassis-engine combo.

Nah. You won't have the ultimate pace to have a real shot at the title. Hence why I'm at a loss to explain why Mr Jones thinks you'll be remotely competitive this year

Shut it you

[Wizzie]

That's the result of unreliability, boy

Seriously, 17 retirements???? At least with the ban on turbos we'll get a slightly better chance at the title. If not, then I'll change my chassis-engine combo.

Nah. You won't have the ultimate pace to have a real shot at the title. Hence why I'm at a loss to explain why Mr Jones thinks you'll be remotely competitive this year

Shut it you

Hey, Prospec proved this year that sticking with the same package as the previous season isn't a good idea. At all.

[the Masked Lapwing]

I think the credits should be as even as possible so that everybody gets a fair chance of getting the same upgrades, etc.

Here's another thing I've thought up: Make all the top 6 teams buy new chassis and engines. That way, they don't dominate for five seasons with the same engine/chassis lineup, much like DGNgineering is doing right now. It would also give smaller teams a better chance to catch up to the bigger teams. At least that's my theory.

If we look at the top 6 teams from 2014, DGNgineering used a different chassis than in 2013, MRT used a different engine, both of them as well as Sunshine will have to change engines for 2015 anyway and Jones used a different chassis as well. Only ENB and Kamaha kept (and can keep) the same combination.

And ENB fell back by keeping the same combination anyway. And of the top 6 from 2013, you yourself changed your engine and HRT changed their chassis (to great detriment )

No, I only changed the chassis. The engine was the same, which makes it worse

[Wizzie]

If we look at the top 6 teams from 2014, DGNgineering used a different chassis than in 2013, MRT used a different engine, both of them as well as Sunshine will have to change engines for 2015 anyway and Jones used a different chassis as well. Only ENB and Kamaha kept (and can keep) the same combination.

And ENB fell back by keeping the same combination anyway. And of the top 6 from 2013, you yourself changed your engine and HRT changed their chassis (to great detriment )

No, I only changed the chassis. The engine was the same, which makes it worse

I was referring to our esteemed friend Mr McClean when I mentioned the engine

[tommykl]

Nah. You won't have the ultimate pace to have a real shot at the title. Hence why I'm at a loss to explain why Mr Jones thinks you'll be remotely competitive this year

Shut it you

Hey, Prospec proved this year that sticking with the same package as the previous season isn't a good idea. At all.

What makes me believe that this is a good idea is that DGN, MRT and Sunshine will have to switch engines which, IIRC, should come without upgrades and go for normally aspirated engines. Gillet was the quickest non-turbo team last year, and have the advantage of having a very upgraded package.

Ergo, I'll probably be mired in the midfield

[Wizzie]

Hey, Prospec proved this year that sticking with the same package as the previous season isn't a good idea. At all.

What makes me believe that this is a good idea is that DGN, MRT and Sunshine will have to switch engines which, IIRC, should come without upgrades and go for normally aspirated engines. Gillet was the quickest non-turbo team last year, and have the advantage of having a very upgraded package.

Ergo, I'll probably be mired in the midfield

[/quote]

MRT never upgraded their engine, mate. We only threw 300 odd credits at reliability which got transferred to the chassis as that was the component we were keeping at the end of the year. Sad thing is it arguably made the finishing record even worse for MRT

[tommykl]

Hey, Prospec proved this year that sticking with the same package as the previous season isn't a good idea. At all.

What makes me believe that this is a good idea is that DGN, MRT and Sunshine will have to switch engines which, IIRC, should come without upgrades and go for normally aspirated engines. Gillet was the quickest non-turbo team last year, and have the advantage of having a very upgraded package.

Ergo, I'll probably be mired in the midfield

MRT never upgraded their engine, mate. We only threw 300 odd credits at reliability which got transferred to the chassis as that was the component we were keeping at the end of the year. Sad thing is it arguably made the finishing record even worse for MRT

But whatever engine you choose should be less powerful than the ridiculously quick BMW

[Wizzie]

What makes me believe that this is a good idea is that DGN, MRT and Sunshine will have to switch engines which, IIRC, should come without upgrades and go for normally aspirated engines. Gillet was the quickest non-turbo team last year, and have the advantage of having a very upgraded package.

Ergo, I'll probably be mired in the midfield

MRT never upgraded their engine, mate. We only threw 300 odd credits at reliability which got transferred to the chassis as that was the component we were keeping at the end of the year. Sad thing is it arguably made the finishing record even worse for MRT

But whatever engine you choose should be less powerful than the ridiculously quick BMW

That's where the brilliant MRT M6 chassis comes into play, my friend.

[AndreaModa]

Nah. You won't have the ultimate pace to have a real shot at the title. Hence why I'm at a loss to explain why Mr Jones thinks you'll be remotely competitive this year

It's quite simple really, Gillet kept both chassis and engine for 2014, and invested all the credits they earned into its performance, and thus were the fastest non-turbo team because they had the most developed package. People seem to think they can just waltz in with a chassis/engine combo and immediately start winning. That was the case with the turbos because they were so fast, and obviously for the first season when everyone was at the same level, but from now on, you'll start to see the teams who develop a fundamentally good package will come to the fore. Hence why I'm of the belief that the teams who already have a good package, and have already invested heavily in its performance, such as Gillet, will be the major players next season.

[Shizuka]

The main target is always just some small steps forward.
I don't think Shonan will qualify more than once next year, so my target is only to get through prequalifying and qualifying once. If that's achieved, it's mission complete, and then it'd be the time to improve the chassis and the qualifying performances.
And so on, and so on.

[eurobrun]

The main target is always just some small steps forward.
I don't think Shonan will qualify more than once next year, so my target is only to get through prequalifying and qualifying once. If that's achieved, it's mission complete, and then it'd be the time to improve the chassis and the qualifying performances.
And so on, and so on.

Shonan might not be as screwed as you think if you are smart about your chassis choice. At the very least you should beat Tropico again.

[Wizzie]

Nah. You won't have the ultimate pace to have a real shot at the title. Hence why I'm at a loss to explain why Mr Jones thinks you'll be remotely competitive this year

It's quite simple really, Gillet kept both chassis and engine for 2014, and invested all the credits they earned into its performance, and thus were the fastest non-turbo team because they had the most developed package. People seem to think they can just waltz in with a chassis/engine combo and immediately start winning. That was the case with the turbos because they were so fast, and obviously for the first season when everyone was at the same level, but from now on, you'll start to see the teams who develop a fundamentally good package will come to the fore. Hence why I'm of the belief that the teams who already have a good package, and have already invested heavily in its performance, such as Gillet, will be the major players next season.

Don't be so quick to write MRT off just yet, Mr Jones. Mr Melrose would never be stupid enough to go into this year without having at least three plans he could use for his team.

[AndreaModa]

Mate, I wouldn't go anywhere near any of your decisions seeing as you cocked up 2013 so bad, and then blew what was by far and away the best package on the grid this year, and were lucky not to get beaten by Sunshine had they not had such a poor start to the season!

In fact, I'm struggling to think of a single decision that you've made that's actually benefited your team!

[Stramala]

Of course Melrose sucks at F1RWRS. Unlike his GP4 career, he can't set the game to easy mode so he can actually win anything

[Wizzie]

Mate, I wouldn't go anywhere near any of your decisions seeing as you cocked up 2013 so bad, and then blew what was by far and away the best package on the grid this year, and were lucky not to get beaten by Sunshine had they not had such a poor start to the season!

In fact, I'm struggling to think of a single decision that you've made that's actually benefited your team!

MRT would have blown the budget cap to smithereens regardless of whether Sunshine beat us or not. Therefore, why should I care?

And once you think about it, every decision I've made over the past two years has benefited the team in one way or another. Even that crock of shite that was the M4 was a benefit as it meant that I'd weaseled my way into by far the best chassis on the grid, which is actually far more critical for 2015 than it has been for the past two years. The decision to merge the two teams at the end of 2013 gave the team enough credits to get the Zakspeed engine for 2014 without hurting the budget which, coupled with the chassis, was a practical demonstration of just how fast the F1RWRS cars can theoretically go. Although the best decision of all was listening and taking down every single word that Aerond has said about the intricacies of how the system works as there's more than enough information there to dominate the F1RWRS as it is.

Of course Melrose sucks at F1RWRS. Unlike his GP4 career, he can't set the game to easy mode so he can actually win anything

Says the man whose spent his entire F1RWRS management career mired in Pre-Qualifying

[Stramala]

Of course Melrose sucks at F1RWRS. Unlike his GP4 career, he can't set the game to easy mode so he can actually win anything

Says the man whose spent his entire F1RWRS management career mired in Pre-Qualifying

Which proves my point! Only idiots look at short-term. The short-term was sacrificed for long term, I inherited crap equipment, what am I supposed to do? Invent money I don't have to improve the car? Find a wealthy Sheikh to buy the team and spend 100 trillion of whatever currency they have out there turning my team into the Paris Saint Germain of RWRS? Only an idiot can't understand the reason for a team doing so poorly...

[Wizzie]

Of course Melrose sucks at F1RWRS. Unlike his GP4 career, he can't set the game to easy mode so he can actually win anything

Says the man whose spent his entire F1RWRS management career mired in Pre-Qualifying

Which proves my point! Only idiots look at short-term. The short-term was sacrificed for long term, I inherited crap equipment, what am I supposed to do? Invent money I don't have to improve the car? Find a wealthy Sheikh to buy the team and spend 100 trillion of whatever currency they have out there turning my team into the Paris Saint Germain of RWRS? Only an idiot can't understand the reason for a team doing so poorly...

So I see you've forgotten about the unmittigated disaster that was Virgin Intercourse

[Stramala]

Says the man whose spent his entire F1RWRS management career mired in Pre-Qualifying

Which proves my point! Only idiots look at short-term. The short-term was sacrificed for long term, I inherited crap equipment, what am I supposed to do? Invent money I don't have to improve the car? Find a wealthy Sheikh to buy the team and spend 100 trillion of whatever currency they have out there turning my team into the Paris Saint Germain of RWRS? Only an idiot can't understand the reason for a team doing so poorly...

So I see you've forgotten about the unmittigated disaster that was Virgin Intercourse

Virgin Inter Corse. Get it right. And I wasn't even here to dictate the team. It was run without an owner. Those aren't poor choices. Idiot.

[Wizzie]

Which proves my point! Only idiots look at short-term. The short-term was sacrificed for long term, I inherited crap equipment, what am I supposed to do? Invent money I don't have to improve the car? Find a wealthy Sheikh to buy the team and spend 100 trillion of whatever currency they have out there turning my team into the Paris Saint Germain of RWRS? Only an idiot can't understand the reason for a team doing so poorly...

So I see you've forgotten about the unmittigated disaster that was Virgin Intercourse

Virgin Inter Corse. Get it right. And I wasn't even here to dictate the team. It was run without an owner. Those aren't poor choices. Idiot.

And whose fault was it that there was nobody at the helm?

[Wizzie]

Back onto more serious matters now and I've noticed whilst updating the regluations that qualifying sessions are only 15 minutes each as stipulated in article 5.2.1. If it isn't too much hassle for the Commissioner, MRT will like to see the sessions lengthened to 30 minutes each to give the fans more value for their money.

[Aerond]

Back onto more serious matters now and I've noticed whilst updating the regluations that qualifying sessions are only 15 minutes each as stipulated in article 5.2.1. If it isn't too much hassle for the Commissioner, MRT will like to see the sessions lengthened to 30 minutes each to give the fans more value for their money.

It´s a hassle as Gp2 results tend to be crazier in shorter sessions (as drivers usually get only one outing per session), so longer would surely result in more predictable and boring qualifying results.

[Wizzie]

Back onto more serious matters now and I've noticed whilst updating the regluations that qualifying sessions are only 15 minutes each as stipulated in article 5.2.1. If it isn't too much hassle for the Commissioner, MRT will like to see the sessions lengthened to 30 minutes each to give the fans more value for their money.

It´s a hassle as Gp2 results tend to be crazier in shorter sessions (as drivers usually get only one outing per session), so longer would surely result in more predictable and boring qualifying results.

Ah. Fair enough. I just thought that 15 minutes for a qualifying sessions seemed odd for such a high-profile category.

[Phoenix]

Back onto more serious matters now and I've noticed whilst updating the regluations that qualifying sessions are only 15 minutes each as stipulated in article 5.2.1. If it isn't too much hassle for the Commissioner, MRT will like to see the sessions lengthened to 30 minutes each to give the fans more value for their money.

It´s a hassle as Gp2 results tend to be crazier in shorter sessions (as drivers usually get only one outing per session), so longer would surely result in more predictable and boring qualifying results.

Leave it in 15 minutes then.

[Stramala]

I propose that Daniel Melrose stop making so many propositions, shoving them down people's throats without consulting anyone.

[AndreaModa]

The explanation from Aerond was what I was going to say. The 15 minute sessions will mean more unpredictability and better chances for smaller teams to score good results. Thus, unless that was a proposal motivated by MRT's interests in the series as a top team (which would be perfectly acceptable of course), then there really isn't any point in it.

I propose that Daniel Melrose stop making so many propositions, shoving them down people's throats without consulting anyone.

Calm it you, it was only a proposal.

[Wizzie]

Will the non-used chassis' from this season stay for 2015?
I have picked three out of them, two seems alright to use (realistically thinking I won't have enough to swap the engine too), although the power ratings are below five for both of them, but those two seemed to be the best currently.

I actually forgot about your question in the midst of all the political wrangling. By my understanding of what happened last year, the vast majority of them will stay for 2015 but I believe the really shite ones will probably get culled when Aerond publishes the official list.

[Shizuka]

And we can all agree on ditching the Lola T97, what I used. I'd even pay 10 credits to see it burn!

[Wizzie]

And we can all agree on ditching the Lola T97, what I used. I'd even pay 10 credits to see it burn!

Looks like a job for Frank Zimmer

[Aerond]

Now that we have the kicked off the 2015 with the opening of the market I would like to bring two issues. One of them is an inmediate change on rules and the 2nd one is aimed at the 2016 season.

1) As you know, credit transfers between teams are now strictly forbidden. I was asking myself if it would be good to add an exception to this rule. Team A can transfer credits for development of drivers owned by Team A owner which are driving for Team B. For example, Tropico can give 100 credits to Prospec to develop Kay Lon´s abbilities. Those credits would only be able to be spent on drivers and never on car development; I´d like to hear your thoughts. Now, once the credits are transfered we have three options:

A) Tropico owner decides how to spend credits on Kay Lon
B) Prospec owner decides how to spend credits on Kay Lon
C) It doesn´t really matter

2) Tyres; As I told you several months ago, I´d like to introduce tyre development to the game. My idea goes as it follows:

+ Tyre purchase is mandatory every season.
+ Tyres cost between Free and 250 credits.
+ There´s 5 or 6 Tyre manufacturers to chose from, each of them with a different price (or every tyre could cost the same, but I prefer to have different prices)
+ Tyres can affect different values, but not all the tyres affect the same values. Tyres can affect values positively or negatively. Of course, team owners know what each tyre does beforehand from a list like the chassis and engine list. For example.

Manufacturer A; Price: 175; Reliability +500; Drivers grip +150; Drivers Random Grip -300
Manufacturer B; Price: 100; Reliability -2500; Engine Power +5Bhp; Drivers Random Grip -600; Drivers grip in wet conditions +300
Manufacturer C; Price: 250; Engine Power +5Bhp; Drivers Grip +300 (Dry Qualifying), +50 (Dry Race); Drivers Random Grip +300 (all conditions).

We could even add a little description of what type of tyre each manufacturer produces like:

Manufacturer A; Excellent on grip, very reliable but don´t adapt very well to each type of track.
Manufacturer B; Excellent traction and Wet tyres, but they won´t work well anywhere, plus they have reliability issues.
Manufacturer C; Excellent traction and incredible Qualifying tyres. Very stable, they adapt good to every kind of track, even in wet conditions.

Basically, I know it would add more in-depth to the game (which I know not everyone would feel comfortable with), but I also want something else for teams to spend credits on as we can´t keep introducing better chassis and engines forever and I know F1RWRS will become a development war soon, and more now that all teams have credits to spend at the beggining of the season, and I prefer to introduce things to spend on rather than reducing prizes. Of course free tyres will have its good things, they don´t necessarily need to be crap.
And I prefer talking to develop even further this idea rather than people rejecting it. If it´s not this, I´ll introduce something else, but I prefer this rather than Driver salaries or Travel costs, for example.

[JeremyMcClean]

No, I don't want to have any credit transferring. That will just leave teams with more money to develop the car and blow away the opposition.

And what's wrong with only one tyre manufacturer? And making teams pay for tyres will just break logic. What if teams have no money for good tyres? They will just have to get the ones at the back of the shelf that's been collecting dust since they were manufactured!

Personally, I like the rules with the credits as is.

I have an idea that could stop development wars - make the top teams (let's say top five) ditch their cars. That way, lower teams can build on successes and - development wars don't happen, since the winning teams will have to ditch their cars due to regulation.

[Aerond]

No, I don't want to have any credit transferring. That will just leave teams with more money to develop the car and blow away the opposition.

And what's wrong with only one tyre manufacturer? And making teams pay for tyres will just break logic. What if teams have no money for good tyres? They will just have to get the ones at the back of the shelf that's been collecting dust since they were manufactured!

Personally, I like the rules with the credits as is.

As I said, Free tyres doesn´t have to be crap or hurt your chances, they just won´t come with as many extras as other tyres.

[Aerond]

I have an idea that could stop development wars - make the top teams (let's say top five) ditch their cars. That way, lower teams can build on successes and - development wars don't happen, since the winning teams will have to ditch their cars due to regulation.

I don´t think that would be very good, as those teams could simply swap their chassises between each other endlessly.

[JeremyMcClean]

I have an idea that could stop development wars - make the top teams (let's say top five) ditch their cars. That way, lower teams can build on successes and - development wars don't happen, since the winning teams will have to ditch their cars due to regulation.

I don´t think that would be very good, as those teams could simply swap their chassises between each other endlessly.

The chassises are bought without the upgrades, right?

And we'll put restrictions on the "Top-5 Chassises" so that the Top 5 can't buy them.

In hindsight, the tyres proposal could work, just that they would have to be the same price so anyone can grab them, and that there should be only two manufacturers so that it doesn't become a monumental mess...

[SuperAguri]

I would like to be able to spend credits on a chassis to upgrade its maximum bhp rating. Say 10 credits per 1bhp increase?

Although Pay Drivers do get random stats, it would be nice if the changes to there stats was within a small band each season.

With team owners managing drivers who are driving for other teams it does seem right that we should be able to spend money on our drivers to make them better. Although it should be the team owners/managers that spend their credits on their drivers so it is not credit transfering. However to stop the other team from benefitting too much, a percentage of credits that driver would win for the team would go back to the driver manager. For example if I spend 200 credits on Shinobu Katayama and she goes on to win the championship then a percentage of Sunshines credits would come back to me, although a percentage calculation would needed to be worked out.

Tyres do seem a good idea, although the credit ammounts are quite high esp for the midfielder teams as it does seem the top teams would get the best tyres and dominate more.... and there are questions like, if my chassis max bhp is 720, will using tyres that give me +5bhp give me 725 bhp or will I be stuck with 720bhp? Ditto for Reliability, if I had 2500 points there, would I have the minimum of 2000 or would I magically get 0? Maybe +/- grip for conditions (Hot, Dry, Cool, damp, wet, monsoon, etc...) would be simpler?