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by **Peter** » 12 Jan 2012, 08:52

Didn't McLaren do something similar a few years ago? Use an updated version of the previous year's car, and it was successful enough that the car for that year never saw the light of day? I think it was 2013.

by **cbbcisace** » 12 Jan 2012, 08:55

Even me being a HRT fan, that would never work for them.

The Dallara car they based the F111 needs throwing away!

by **mario** » 12 Jan 2012, 09:36

Peter wrote:Didn't McLaren do something similar a few years ago? Use an updated version of the previous year's car, and it was successful enough that the car for that year never saw the light of day? I think it was 2013.

That would be the MP4-17D, which was a development of the MP4-17 (hence why it was the D-spec version of that car), although McLaren didn't really want to go down that route originally. The problem was that, after they were not only soundly thrashed by Ferrari but also by Williams, Ron Dennis encouraged Newey to produce a more radical car for 2003, which was to be the MP4-18. However, development of the car was an utter nightmare due to the packaging constraints Newey demanded, which lead to repeated problems with overheating components - and that was before the car failed the side impact test (it failed at least twice). The handling of the car was somewhat suspect too - Wurz wrote one car off completely at Jerez when he lost control of the car.

by **solarcold** » 12 Jan 2012, 17:03

What do I and Joe Saward have in common?
Both are biased towards Kolles and Liuzzi.
But unlike him I'm a HRT fan. I really must admit Tonio is either not really worried about his future career (I mean the "i have no contract for 2012? ah who cares" attitude) or just we don't know everything. Be him more worried, he might have found another seat somewhere knowing he's outta HRT.
And I still believe HRT will have a new car by the start of 2012.

by **S951** » 13 Jan 2012, 05:17

I don't think the f111 was a total crap wagon as with most things back of the grid not enough development. If the car had a decent budget for development then so many things could be improved to gain a few seconds not enough to get caterham but enough to clear mvr.

Will be interesting to see the lower end cars as with them you can see much more differences and when parts do change more interesting

by **AdrianSutil** » 13 Jan 2012, 21:29

I can still see HRT cancelling the first test, turning up with parts for the second test, before finally announcing the car at the third test, but running only a few miles.

As for the F112, I can't see a completely new car being ready in time. We're less than 2 months away from the first race and it's going to be an almighty push to get it completed for any test. I'm expectng a sort of F111/B to arrive at Round 1. Before giving the F112 it's first run at the first European race. I may be wrong, but don't be surprised if I'm right either.

by **DanielPT** » 13 Jan 2012, 21:41

AdrianSutil wrote:I can still see HRT cancelling the first test, turning up with parts for the second test, before finally announcing the car at the third test, but running only a few miles.

As for the F112, I can't see a completely new car being ready in time. We're less than 2 months away from the first race and it's going to be an almighty push to get it completed for any test. I'm expectng a sort of F111/B to arrive at Round 1. Before giving the F112 it's first run at the first European race. I may be wrong, but don't be surprised if I'm right either.

I foresee another rerun of the last two years. Testing with old car or no testing at all and then come up with the car untested at the first race. Although this time at the first test, it is the Spanish police who impound the trucks due to lack of insurance. It's all a bit ugly, really...

by **S951** » 13 Jan 2012, 22:26

in theory for the f111b what would need changing to meet new regs? also would they run any f112 bits? if they do I am thinking fw, rw new drs system kers bodged in new williams box

by **DanielPT** » 13 Jan 2012, 22:44

S951 wrote:in theory for the f111b what would need changing to meet new regs? also would they run any f112 bits? if they do I am thinking fw, rw new drs system kers bodged in new williams box

I am thinking that not much will need to be done. They should find space for KERS but that is not really critical. They never used blown diffusers in the first place so that is actually a bonus. They might find themselves closer to midfield for that. They are not obliged to use DRS although it would be better for them. In the end they might just develop with new front and rear wing and perhaps a new engine cover or something that will accommodate the KERS device. They might have to adjust some sizes and heights but not much really. At least that is what I can think off the top of my head, but mario should complete this post later since this is the kind of question he finds interesting

(me too, but I have less time and patience to go deeper).

by **AdrianSutil** » 13 Jan 2012, 22:47

S951 wrote:in theory for the f111b what would need changing to meet new regs? also would they run any f112 bits? if they do I am thinking fw, rw new drs system kers bodged in new williams box

If they did that it would look awful. Caterham are well on the way to finishing thier car, Marussia have been quiet but I believe they're nearly finished. HRT can't afford to mess around, especially with the new bits they're getting from Williams. It all needs to be thoroughly tested first. I can see another DNQ looming...

by **cbbcisace** » 14 Jan 2012, 04:35

If I'm right the F111 tub is not the right size for the 2012 regs.

It will be a new car I believe.

Just need to believe!!

by **David AGS** » 15 Jan 2012, 20:12

Im going to stick my neck out and predict the second HRT driver.

Jan Charouz

Why? Eckelart (or whatever his name is)hinted that it will be a new young face with a lot of potential. I think he ticks all the boxes. He did pretty good at Brazil, in Free Practice, and didnt crash or anything. He is a Lotus Renault driver, but considering they got about 20 drivers on the books, and is also backed well. Just on that Brazil practice run, there were a few small stickers on the car.

Okay,if he doesnt get it, I wouldnt rule out 'The Narain'. It dont matter what he do, he is still going to bring bags full of cash with him, and potentially even more with the Indians more aware of F1, obviously having a race there and the boom in the asian market. He was normally last, but I mean he wasnt that bad, he kept the car off the walls, and IMO wasnt totally blown away from Liuzzi. At the very least a Friday spot and a race at India.

by **cbbcisace** » 15 Jan 2012, 21:02

He could well be a reserve for HRT but i am going to say it is van der Garde..

by **Captain Hammer** » 15 Jan 2012, 22:57

Autosport is reporting that Kevin Ceccon is among the contenders for the second HRT seat. Normally I'd write this off as idle speculation, but something is clearly afoot: until a week ago, Kevin Ceccon was contracted to drive for Coloni in GP2. An issue of The GP2 Insider quoted him directly as saying he would race for the team. But then, a week ago, Coloni signed Stefano Coletti and Fanio Onidi. No mention was made of Ceccon. I suppose it makes sense on a certain level - Tonio Liuzzi is probably not going to race at HRT this year. And popular rumour places Vitaly Petrov in the seat currently held by Jarno Trulli. That means that there will be no Italian drivers on the grid, probably for the first time since the mid-1970s. Maybe for the first time in the history of the sport. I imagine that this would equal a national scandal in Italy, and that Italian businesses would move heaven and earth to make sure there was an Italian driver in Formula 1.

So either the Ceccon deal was misreported, or his contract was somehow terminated – possibly because HRT are looking to take him. I can’t imagine it would be terminated without a solid deal in place for 2012, but I think it’s more likely that wires got crossed and Ceccon was misreported as racing for Coloni.

by **cbbcisace** » 15 Jan 2012, 23:15

Captain, I read the article, I just wonder if Kevin Ceccon is being lined up a reserve driver for HRT?

by **cbbcisace** » 16 Jan 2012, 01:38

Just to put things in perspective Marussia will not have their new car until Barcelona, accordingly to Pat Symonds.

Its believed that they started earlier than HRT as well..

by **Yannick** » 21 Jan 2012, 02:17

What are HRT going to do without Kolles is probably less interesting than what Kolles will do without HRT because without Kolles, HRT do not have a team.

But Kolles, what is he going to do with his team? Maybe LMS with customer Peugeots?

by **RealRacingRoots** » 21 Jan 2012, 09:15

Yannick wrote:But Kolles, what is he going to do with his team? Maybe LMS with customer Peugeots?

Hes going to run in the WEC with a LMP2 Lola-Judd.

by **GwilymJJames** » 25 Jan 2012, 01:39

HRT announce Yamimoto deal.

A headline that would be a lot better with one vowel changed.

by **Pointrox** » 25 Jan 2012, 04:40

GwilymJJames wrote:HRT announce Yamimoto deal.

A headline that would be a lot better with one vowel changed.

Exactly.
At first I thought that it was what it wasn't, but then I realised it wasn't, and it actually was exactly what it was :shock:

by **David AGS** » 25 Jan 2012, 05:49

Me three!

Electrical bikes/scooters etc. Ah, who needs to walk. You can imagine, all the Ferrari guys walking reluctantly in a very hot day in Malaysia, while the HRT team overtake em with their new machines.

de la Rosa has said the old car will be used in the first test, and are hoping to use new car in second test

by **DanielPT** » 25 Jan 2012, 07:17

HRT wrote:(...) will use Yamimoto’s electric bicycles to move around at Grands Prix and away from them.

Away from them? Does that means they will ditch trucks and transport planes in order to go to the venues using a bike?

by **Eryx** » 03 Feb 2012, 22:01

Kartikeyan compeltes the line up...seriously......Money...and they go for someone slow. . .Petrov would have been perfect for this seat.

by **solarcold** » 04 Feb 2012, 01:07

Kathikeyan claims he's no slower than other F1 racers and never gives up. Discuss

by **DOSBoot** » 04 Feb 2012, 02:41

solarcold wrote:Kathikeyan claims he's no slower than other F1 racers and never gives up. Discuss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1QzZ15-L38

by **FullMetalJack** » 04 Feb 2012, 03:34

DOSBoot wrote:
solarcold wrote:Kathikeyan claims he's no slower than other F1 racers and never gives up. Discuss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1QzZ15-L38

This would be more appropriate

by **DOSBoot** » 04 Feb 2012, 03:56

redbulljack14 wrote:
DOSBoot wrote:
solarcold wrote:Kathikeyan claims he's no slower than other F1 racers and never gives up. Discuss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1QzZ15-L38

This would be more appropriate

Same meaning anyways.

by **S951** » 04 Feb 2012, 04:06

oh the dream it is over

by **Ataxia** » 04 Feb 2012, 04:52

This news was probably more surprising than when he signed up to drive last year...

by **Minardi Man** » 04 Feb 2012, 05:55

HRT COULD have selected a much better driver with cash, but then it just wouldn't be HRT if they started making good sensible decisions now, would it?

by **Aerond** » 04 Feb 2012, 06:02

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:This news was probably more surprising than when he signed up to drive last year...

That´s correct, which makes it even more fun :lol:

No, seriously; I was really hopping Sutil or Petrov to step in, or even Klien, but Karthikeyan? Come on!

by **Peter** » 04 Feb 2012, 08:51

Minardi Man wrote:HRT COULD have selected a much better driver with cash, but then it just wouldn't be HRT if they started making good sensible decisions now, would it?

Karthikeyan proved his worth last year, in my opinion. He got up to speed very quickly, and was always close to Liuzzi, that is, whenever he wasn't dealing with problems with the car. He even returns to the wheel after months, and basically was on par with Ricciardo. HRT probably would have lost their TATA sponsorship had they not kept Narain on board, and he probably brings in more money than a driver like Petrov would. Petrov probably would have rejected an HRT drive, anyway.

by **JeremyMcClean** » 04 Feb 2012, 09:19

Karthikeyan again?

Well that is a bizarre move, but it doesn't matter, we've got an honourary reject on HRT!

And the silly season is now over sadly

by **dr-baker** » 04 Feb 2012, 09:21

So no Maria de Villota or Milka Duno then, as discussed in the last F1 Rejects podcast?

by **fjackdaw** » 04 Feb 2012, 10:49

This must be the dullest driver line-up in a while.

by **solarcold** » 04 Feb 2012, 16:28

JeremyMcClean wrote:And the silly season is now over sadly

Still a slight possibility of Petrov-Trulli exchange, actually.

by **eurobrun** » 04 Feb 2012, 16:31

solarcold wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:And the silly season is now over sadly

Still a slight possibility of Petrov-Trulli exchange, actually.

I find it very hard to believe that this will happen

by **solarcold** » 04 Feb 2012, 16:32

eurobrun wrote:
solarcold wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:And the silly season is now over sadly

Still a slight possibility of Petrov-Trulli exchange, actually.

I find it very hard to believe that this will happen

Only if sponsors fail to pay in time

by **AndreaModa** » 04 Feb 2012, 23:01

It's looking less and less likely, especially as today, Caterham have confirmed that Van Der Garde will be the team's reserve driver, and will apparently get both some testing and Friday practice running.

Link to Autosport: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97315

Seeing as they've announced him, I would have expected them to finalise any deal with Petrov either before or at the same time as this announcement. I think the grid is pretty much finalised for Australia now.

by **David AGS** » 05 Feb 2012, 00:03

I can already see the Autosport preview!

HRT are not going to set the world on fire, but its two drivers in Pedro de la Rosa and Narain Karthikeyan bring a lot of backing, have years of experience, and may surprise some with some good results.

We should have known about 'The Fastest Indian' signing, HRT didnt move the TATA and Base logos from their website.

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