What If?

[This]

What if Penske stayed in F1 beyond 1976?

ATS would fail even harder

[nome66]

... the Indy 500 would be reintroduced in the F1 calendar? Would regular F1 teams make an effort at the oval or not?

i could see this happening. red bull would jump on the opportunity to stick their hands in another motorsport.

sorry what i meant to say was Vettel's finger

[JeremyMcClean]

Was just thinking (and someone has probably mentioned it before) what if Michael Schumacher had filled in for the injured Massa in 2009? I'm thinking that he'd have been so put off by the car that Ferrari had in 2009 that he never would have joined Mercedes in 2010.

Badoer would have joined Mercedes instead

WRONG!

Nick Heidfeld would get the seat

[FantometteBR]

What if Penske stayed in F1 beyond 1976?

ATS would fail even harder

Probably ATS wouldn't even come to life or come to life as some kind of Sprit/RAM-esque team

Penske could one or two more wins but it would be mostly a midfield team with some sparks of happiness like Parnelli was, and thus Roger Penske would pull the plug around early 80s to keep himself focused on CART

[eurobrun]

seconded

[Klon]

What if David Coulthard wouldn't have gotten away with his start at the Australian Grand Prix in 2005 and rammed either Jarno Trulli or Mark Webber?

[Wizzie]

What if David Coulthard wouldn't have gotten away with his start at the Australian Grand Prix in 2005 and rammed either Jarno Trulli or Mark Webber?

Not much except Australia would have been up in arms about it and Fernando may have had a better chance at Rubens and possibly even be in a position to win the race.

Anyways here's my latest question:

What if Colin Chapman wasn't injured before the 1956 French GP?

[Pointrox]

What if Colin Chapman wasn't injured before the 1956 French GP?

Maybe he would pursue his racing career and drive self-built cars?

What if Russians actually made it and entered Formula One with Darren Manning and Viktor Maslov? Oh dear!

[dr-baker]

What if Russians actually made it and entered Formula One with Darren Manning and Viktor Maslov? Oh dear!

Petrov would have a more secure F1 career, perhaps alongside Marko Asmer (from a former USSR nation I beieve)? And Kubica has a team to return to after his injury?

[FantometteBR]

What if Russians actually made it and entered Formula One with Darren Manning and Viktor Maslov? Oh dear!

I guess it could be a wealthier Arrows, first years with somehow reliable drivers, but not so good results. Arden could push Lada somehow to be into Formula One, but it could end up being the one Vijay Mallya buys for create Force India

[wmetcalf68]

What if Marco Andretti went to f1?

[Dj_bereta]

What if Marco Andretti went to f1?

Probably he goes to Honda and replaces Barrichello in 2008, and:

-Barrichello retires after your worst season but becomes third driver at Williams and waits for a chance.
-Marco didn't do well in your first races, running with Force Indias, but end the year with good results.
-Honda scores only 4 points in 2008.
-Ross Brawn fires Marco in favour of Bruno Senna for 2009.
-Marco returns to Indy and becomes a F1 Reject.
-Williams Broken your deal with Toyota in 2009, fires Nakagima, picks Mercedes power and put Barrichello in second seat.
-Petrobras becomes the main sponsor of Williams.
-Bruno Senna scores some podiums, but no wins.
-With Rosberg leaving Williams, Petrobras pressure the team for a brazilian line-up in 2010, with Barrichello and Bruno Senna.
-Hulkenberg becomes third driver at Mercedes.
-Barrichello outpaces Senna in 2010 and 2011.
-Williams broken with petrobras and picks Maldonado for 2012, firing Senna.

[DOSBoot]

What if Eddie Cheever took that Ferrari drive?

[BlindCaveSalamander]

What if Eddie Cheever took that Ferrari drive?

Eddie Cheever was offered a Ferrari drive? When?

[Pointrox]

What if Eddie Cheever took that Ferrari drive?

Eddie Cheever was offered a Ferrari drive? When?

He was beaten to it by Gilles Villeneuve. I didn't know that either

[BlindCaveSalamander]

What if Eddie Cheever took that Ferrari drive?

Eddie Cheever was offered a Ferrari drive? When?

He was beaten to it by Gilles Villeneuve. I didn't know that either

Really? Well, I was going to consider doing this, but putting Gilles Villeneuve somewhere other than Ferrari should be considered sacriledge.

[DOSBoot]

Eddie Cheever was offered a Ferrari drive? When?

He was beaten to it by Gilles Villeneuve. I didn't know that either

Really? Well, I was going to consider doing this, but putting Gilles Villeneuve somewhere other than Ferrari should be considered sacriledge.

I'm surprised no one knew that. Anyways, let me revise my question. What if Eddie Cheever beat Gilles Villeneuve to the Ferrari race seat?

[tommykl]

What if Bouygues had actually paid AGS in 1988?

[midgrid]

He was beaten to it by Gilles Villeneuve. I didn't know that either

Really? Well, I was going to consider doing this, but putting Gilles Villeneuve somewhere other than Ferrari should be considered sacriledge.

I'm surprised no one knew that. Anyways, let me revise my question. What if Eddie Cheever beat Gilles Villeneuve to the Ferrari race seat?

What if Elio de Angelis beat both of them?

[DOSBoot]

What if Elio de Angelis beat both of them?

Quit being a troll, and answer my question please. Then I will give my take on de Angelis.

[Wizzie]

What if Felipe Massa and Mark Webber drove with the same form they showed in China for the entire season?

[James1978]

What if Felipe Massa and Mark Webber drove with the same form they showed in China for the entire season?

I was going to say "exactly the same" then realised you said China and not India.

Actually, not all that different apart from maybe Webber would have beaten Button to runner-up, but I think Massa would still have been 6th (he'd have scored podiums but not wins).

[midgrid]

What if Elio de Angelis beat both of them?

Quit being a troll, and answer my question please. Then I will give my take on de Angelis.

Well, I think Cheever would have scored some points finishes and perhaps some podiums, giving him a points total similar to that of Villeneuve but without the same flashes of brilliance that Gilles showed in 1978. Villeneuve, already rejected by McLaren, drives a second car entered by Walter Wolf, who is eager to run a promising Canadian alongside Scheckter. Villeneuve generally shows well in the Wolf, scoring a couple of podiums, despite usually running an older chassis than Scheckter, but Scheckter is unhappy at the team diluting its resources and secures a Ferrari contract for the following year, replacing the Lotus-bound Reutemann. The highlight of the team's season comes at the Canadian Grand Prix, where Scheckter fends off the strong challenge of Villeneuve to score a Wolf 1-2, with Reutemann in third.

For 1979, Scheckter beats Cheever to the title quite comfortably, but the American continues to improve and takes his first victory at the season-closing race at Watkins Glen, taking third in the championship behind Jones. Meanwhile, Scheckter's seat at Wolf is taken by Hunt, who is comprehensively beaten by Villeneuve before being replaced by Rosberg. However, the car is not as competitive as the year before, and Villeneuve scores a mere handful of points, although his reputation remains high. At the end of the season, McLaren opts to clear out the underperforming Watson and Prost in favour of a clean-sheet line-up of Villeneuve and Prost, remembering Villeneuve's performance for the team in the 1977 British Grand Prix and considering his good performances for Wolf since then.

Ferrari's competitiveness collapses in 1980, with Scheckter and Cheever both scoring a meagre handful of points each and suffering the ignominy of failing to qualify for at least one race. Some promise is displayed by the new turbo engine's first tests at the end of the season, but Scheckter decides to retire and Cheever is fired. Cheever secures at seat at Tyrrell for 1981 at from here on his career mirrors real life. With the fast but relatively unproven Pironi hired for one of the seats in 1981, Enzo Ferrari decides that he needs the known quantity of a fast, experienced driver alongside, and pulls off a coup by signing Andretti, who, after developing the turbo package, wins the championship in 1982 after Pironi's career is ended in a huge crash in qualifying for the 1982 German Grand Prix. Pironi is replaced by Tambay, but Arnoux has already been signed to partner Andretti for 1983. Then Andretti decides not to extend his contract, opting to retire from F1 on a high (remembering how Lotus struggled after winning the championship in 1978) and focus on American racing once more, which allows Tambay to take the seat permanently.

Meanwhile, Villeneuve and Prost struggle with the uncompetitive McLaren M29/30. Prost loses confidence in the safety of the cars and opts to leave the team for Renault, whilst Villeneuve keeps faith and is rewarded with the improved organisation that results from the Project Four takeover and the carbon-fibre MP4/1. He wins the 1981 French, British and Canadian Grands Prix to give himself an outside chance of winning the championship, but ultimately falls short. He launches another assault on the championship in 1982, but just fails to beat Andretti in a close battle that leaves third-placed Rosberg and new team-mate Lauda well behind. Despite overtures from Ferrari (who are not entirely confident in an Arnoux-Tambay pairing), he remains at McLaren, beating the returning Prost (who replaces the disappointed Lauda) to the title in 1984. The next two seasons, however, see the initially happy Prost-Villeneuve relationship break down, as Villeneuve accuses Prost of playing political games to gain support within the team. Prost wins the 1985 title after Villeneuve suffers from slightly worse reliability, but the pair take points off one another to such an extent that Alboreto nearly wins, only losing out in the flyaway races at the end of the seaosn when Ferrari's earlier form disappears. In 1986, the two fight hard again, allowing the wily Piquet to pip Mansell to the championship in an equally intense internecine battle within Williams. By now uncomfortable in McLaren, Villeneuve considers various options for 1987, before deciding to start his own team with support from his Canadian business partners and his brother, Jacques. The team also operates at a junior level, enabling Jacques Jnr to embark upon his own racing career at the age of 16. After a couple of years of driving for Equipe Villeneuve, in which he raises the team into a respectable midfield competitor, but sees his mantle as the most exciting driver usurped by the emerging Senna, Villeneuve retires to a managerial role, although he races for fun in other categories, not least in snowmobiles. Jacques Jnr makes his Grand Prix début for the team in the early 1990s - but that's another story...

[DOSBoot]

Okay, now for Elio de Angelis. Sorry if it's not as detailed as Cheever's.

In 1978, de Angelis would be picked up by Ferrari scoring points on his debut. He regulary scores podiums, and wins a couple races in the process, but due to the Lotuses being the more advance team, Elio has to settle for fifth in the drivers championship. In 1979, there would be a tough fight between him and Sheckter, with Sheckter beating him in the championship by a slighty larger margin. Despite Elio's inexperience, he win a couple more races, and ends up third in the drivers championship behind Alan Jones. In 1980, the Ferrari is a s**tbox, Sheckter retires, and Elio leaves for Lotus at the end of the year. The rest goes the way it does in real life. Villinueve would stay at McLaren until 1983, managing to win about five or six races in the process. He gets third in 1981, but has to settle for runner-up in 1982, after Didier Pironi gets it. In 1983, he leaves McLaren, for Ferrari, wining the drivers championship after a tough fight with Rene Arnox. He has a tough time defending his championship in 1984, but sticks with the team, and wins about four or five more races with them until 1987. Where he retires.

[dinizintheoven]

At the end of the season, McLaren opts to clear out the underperforming Watson and Prost in favour of a clean-sheet line-up of Villeneuve and Prost

Our survey said... *buzzer*

[Faustus]

What if Bouygues had actually paid AGS in 1988?

AGS might not have been bought by that scumbag Cyril de Rouvre and might have lasted a couple of years more, tops.

[FantometteBR]

What if Kojima decided to extend its Formula One participation into a full effort?

[This]

What if Kojima decided to extend its Formula One participation into a full effort?

their 1977 season would be decent, but it remains to be seen wheter or not they could master the ground effect, i think they would be able to.
They could probably get Honda Turbo engines too, and would survive until at least well into the nineties, a little bit similar to what Arrows had done, probably.

[Wizzie]

What if Damon Hill had gone to McLaren instead of TWR Arrows for 1997?

[Enforcer]

First off, Ralf Schumacher wins the 1998 Belgian GP...

Ahem. Would Hill have replaced Hakkinen or Coulthard? I know Hakkinen was the better driver, and by the end of 1997 he was established as de facto #1 at McLaren (Coulthard being asked to let him through to win at Jerez). But at the start of 1997, they only had Coulthard for a year and might have seen him as the one for the future. I also have this notion that Coulthard outscored Hakkinen in 1996 - I'd check it on Wiki, but they've taken down their English site to protest SOPA right now, so I can't.

I reckon he'd have won the '98 WDC for McLaren had Coulthard been his team-mate. Hakkinen probably would've beaten him in 1998. 1999 is trickier. Obviously we have the actual situation in 1999 where Hill didn't have a good season, which is often attributed to him not liking the 1999 regulation cars. But he still had flashes of speed when it suited him. So had he been in a winning car, I think he might have been more 'motivated' and been more competitive and struggled less often. Even with that being the case, Hakkinen would've probably beaten him in 1999 anyway, but Hill would've kept the Flying Finn on his toes better than Coulthard did. Reckon he'd have called it a day after that.

So:

Scenario # 1
Hill joins McLaren at Hakkinen's expense. He scores one race win in 1997 and is generally slightly better than Coulthard. In 1998, he builds up a sufficient lead in the WDC early on in the season over Schumacher with the faster McLaren, and manages to stay ahead to take his 2nd WDC. In 1999, he occassionally struggles with the car, but with Schumacher breaking his leg, and Coulthard and Irvine off the ball, he manages to win another WDC, almost by default. The surprise runner up is Hakkinen, now driving for Jordan, who almost steals it from Hill at the death. Hill sees the writing on the wall and retires. McLaren re-sign Hakkinen, who possibly wins the 2000 WDC before succumbing to Schumacher/Ferrari dominance the following couple of seasons.

Scenario # 2
Hill joins McLaren at Hakkinen's expense. '97 and '98 progress as in #1, but in 1999 Hill, as in reality, struggles at several races and is persuaded to retire mid-season after a couple of podiums, but plenty of poor results. The Driver's Championship is between Irvine for Ferrari, Coulthard for McLaren, Hakkinen for Jordan, with either Irvine or Hakkinen coming out on top. Hakkinen returns to McLaren the following year.

Scenario # 3
Hill joins McLaren at Coulthard's expense. Hakkinen just edges him for pace in 1997 and the results are similar. They go into 1998 with neither being firmly established as team leader. By mid season, though, Hakkinen's eeked out a small advantage over Hill on the points board, and with Schumacher and Ferrari resurgent, McLaren fall in behind Hakkinen and he edges the WDC from Schumacher with Hill a close 3rd. Hill grumbles a bit and considers leaving for Jordan, but instead decides that 1999 will be his last season and his only realistic crack at another WDC is with McLaren. He can't match Hakkinen's pace early on and has a couple of poor races, but starts closing up mid-season as Hakkinen slips up without Schumacher keeping him on his toes. In the end, coming under pressure from Hill, Hakkinen gets his act together and wins the WDC with Hill 2nd having taken a couple of wins.

Scenario # 4
Hill joins McLaren at Coulthard's expense. '97 and '98 progress as in #3. In 1999, Hill struggles frequently with the car and decides to pack it in mid-season. Hakkinen wins the 1999 WDC from Irvine and Frentzen.

[QuickYoda41]

I also have this notion that Coulthard outscored Hakkinen in 1996

Nope, Hakkinen won the inside battle 31-18
http://www.statsf1.com/en/1996.aspx

[Enforcer]

I also have this notion that Coulthard outscored Hakkinen in 1996

Nope, Hakkinen won the inside battle 31-18
http://www.statsf1.com/en/1996.aspx

Was 1997 I was thinking of then. 36-27 in favour of Coulthard. So #3 and #4 are the more likely scenarios then.

[Phoenix]

What if Damon Hill had gone to McLaren instead of TWR Arrows for 1997?

I assume the more likely scenario would be Coulthard being dropped. Hill manages to beat Häkkinen in 1997, and finishes 3rd in the WDC after Schumacher's disqualification, with 2 or 3 wins. In 1998, he struggles with the new rules at first but bounces back during mid-season after getting his act together, winning a couple races and finishing 3rd in the championship to MSC and Häkkinen. In 1999, more motivated because he now feels confortable with the car and he's driving the fastest car on the grid, he manages to give Häkkinen a good fight, eventually edging him narrowly to the 1999 WDC thanks to his consistency. After that, he retires and Barrichello is signed to replace him. How Barrichello fares at Woking is up to you. Meanwhile, Coulthard is signed by Jordan and does an OK job, winning one or two races in 1999.

[DOSBoot]

Someone pointed this out on another thread. How would have Prost done if Senna didn't get the drive at McLaren?

[Enforcer]

He'd have almost certainly won the 88, 89 and 90 WDCs, making him a 5x champion. I'm sure Senna's talent would've gotten him somewhere to challenge Prost by then though, Ferrari or Williams being the most likely.

Reckon it'd have gone like this:

Prost's joined in 1988 by reigning World Champion, Piquet. Senna stays at Lotus. 1988 is dominated by the McLarens, but Prost has a bit of an edge over Piquet and wins. Senna is 3rd.
Senna, realising he won't ever win the Championship with Lotus, attempts to join Ferrari in 1989, but they go with Mansell instead. Senna ends up at Williams. Prost again beats Piquet, this time more comfortably, to the WDC. But by the end of the season Senna is a threat to them in terms of speed.
Piquet leaves for Benetton in 1990 and is replaced at McLaren by Gerhard Berger, who, in turn, is replaced at Ferrari by Patrese. Prost again wins the WDC. Williams don't appear to progress on the pace front, but Senna still extracts enough from the car to be 2nd.
1991 sees Senna and Williams as the fastest package, but Prost's better early season reliability puts him ahead. Senna finally wins at the fourth race in Monaco, before retiring in Canada and Mexico. Williams get it together by mid season and Senna wins 7 of the last 9 races to take the Championship. Prost's attempt to rack up enough 2nd places to keep in the lead are blocked by Williams #2, Jean Alesi.

Senna proceeds to dominate 1992 and 1993 with Alesi finishing both seasons as runner up. Prost retires.

[Aerond]

He'd have almost certainly won the 88, 89 and 90 WDCs, making him a 5x champion. I'm sure Senna's talent would've gotten him somewhere to challenge Prost by then though, Ferrari or Williams being the most likely.

Reckon it'd have gone like this:

Prost's joined in 1988 by reigning World Champion, Piquet. Senna stays at Lotus. 1988 is dominated by the McLarens, but Prost has a bit of an edge over Piquet and wins. Senna is 3rd.
Senna, realising he won't ever win the Championship with Lotus, attempts to join Ferrari in 1989, but they go with Mansell instead. Senna ends up at Williams. Prost again beats Piquet, this time more comfortably, to the WDC. But by the end of the season Senna is a threat to them in terms of speed.
Piquet leaves for Benetton in 1990 and is replaced at McLaren by Gerhard Berger, who, in turn, is replaced at Ferrari by Patrese. Prost again wins the WDC. Williams don't appear to progress on the pace front, but Senna still extracts enough from the car to be 2nd.
1991 sees Senna and Williams as the fastest package, but Prost's better early season reliability puts him ahead. Senna finally wins at the fourth race in Monaco, before retiring in Canada and Mexico. Williams get it together by mid season and Senna wins 7 of the last 9 races to take the Championship. Prost's attempt to rack up enough 2nd places to keep in the lead are blocked by Williams #2, Jean Alesi.

Senna proceeds to dominate 1992 and 1993 with Alesi finishing both seasons as runner up. Prost retires.

Well, I think most of the people tend to forget that in some way, it was Senna who convinced Honda that it would be a good idea to deal with McLaren, thus leaving Williams without the Honda engines. Had Senna gone to Williams-Honda in 1988 pairing Nigel Mansell... well, you can quite imagine which team would have dominated from 1988 onwards. Don´t forget as well that Senna was the most desirable driver in the market in mid 1987 when he announced he wouldn´t continue at Lotus.

[Phoenix]

I agree with Aerond. The interesting question is, would have McLaren got that deal with Renault in 1989? Williams would've still had the upper hand until 1992, but assuming Honda retired after that year, would have Williams' superior aerodynamics and electronic systems superseded the engine disadvantage? I'm assuming a straight engine swap including Williams getting the Ford Cosworth units McLaren had in 1993.

[Aerond]

I agree with Aerond. The interesting question is, would have McLaren got that deal with Renault in 1989? Williams would've still had the upper hand until 1992, but assuming Honda retired after that year, would have Williams' superior aerodynamics and electronic systems superseded the engine disadvantage? I'm assuming a straight engine swap including Williams getting the Ford Cosworth units McLaren had in 1993.

I think williams would have been able to overcome that scenario, specially having in count that Senna had already experienced the semi-active suspension at Lotus in 1987 and that he was much more of a car developer than Nigel Mansell. Probably the demanding attitude of Ayrton towards either the engine manufacturer or the design of the car would have overcome any flaws.

[mario]

I agree with Aerond. The interesting question is, would have McLaren got that deal with Renault in 1989? Williams would've still had the upper hand until 1992, but assuming Honda retired after that year, would have Williams' superior aerodynamics and electronic systems superseded the engine disadvantage? I'm assuming a straight engine swap including Williams getting the Ford Cosworth units McLaren had in 1993.

It does open up the interesting question as to what engine McLaren could have used in 1988 and how effective the MP4/4 would have been if they didn't have the Honda engine at their disposal. Would they have stayed with the TAG-Porsche engine for one more year, even though a lack of development was hurting their success, or might they have made the same decision as Williams and gone down the route of a normally aspirated engine?

[Phoenix]

I agree with Aerond. The interesting question is, would have McLaren got that deal with Renault in 1989? Williams would've still had the upper hand until 1992, but assuming Honda retired after that year, would have Williams' superior aerodynamics and electronic systems superseded the engine disadvantage? I'm assuming a straight engine swap including Williams getting the Ford Cosworth units McLaren had in 1993.

It does open up the interesting question as to what engine McLaren could have used in 1988 and how effective the MP4/4 would have been if they didn't have the Honda engine at their disposal. Would they have stayed with the TAG-Porsche engine for one more year, even though a lack of development was hurting their success, or might they have made the same decision as Williams and gone down the route of a normally aspirated engine?

At first I'm believing they would've pressed on with the TAG engine for one more season (and then probably switched to Renault engines, just like Williams did in real life), but that would've surely compromised the design of the MP4/4 chassis. McLaren would've had an average season, falling behind Ferrari and Williams and scoring no wins.