The Formula 1 Rejects Teams Association (F1RTA) Thread

[eurobrun]

Mr.Alexander would like to raise the discussionon new teams entering the F1RWRS next year (2015).

At the moment we have 20 teams fighting over the 26 grid spots, meaning 7 teams are going home without even attempting the main qualifying session. I understand a few teams are either being closed down altogether or merging wig another due to the new rules. Is there going to be more entries for next year or not?

I'm in support of not having any new teams until the year after (2016) to give those this year that didn't perform well a better chance of starting races next year.

I disagree, the more user involvement the better.

[AdrianSutil]

You would disagree, as your on the waiting list. Its nothing against you or anyone else wanting to run their own team. But people are going to get fed up if their team is continually struggling. User involvement is one thing, but having half of them getting bored with the same poor showing is another.

[eurobrun]

You would disagree, as your on the waiting list. Its nothing against you or anyone else wanting to run their own team. But people are going to get fed up if their team is continually struggling. User involvement is one thing, but having half of them getting bored with the same poor showing is another.

I sort of understand but I don't really agree. (Probably because I am on the waiting list )

[Wizzie]

Mr.Alexander would like to raise the discussionon new teams entering the F1RWRS next year (2015).

At the moment we have 20 teams fighting over the 26 grid spots, meaning 7 teams are going home without even attempting the main qualifying session. I understand a few teams are either being closed down altogether or merging wig another due to the new rules. Is there going to be more entries for next year or not?

I'm in support of not having any new teams until the year after (2016) to give those this year that didn't perform well a better chance of starting races next year.

I disagree, the more user involvement the better.

The MRT Group also agrees with Mr Forbes for the reasons stated (I'd assume he's the guy running your team Eurobrun). On the issues of teams however, MRT would like to know what the situation at Dofasco is as it seems their team owner only ever shows up once a month.

[eurobrun]

Mr.Alexander would like to raise the discussionon new teams entering the F1RWRS next year (2015).

At the moment we have 20 teams fighting over the 26 grid spots, meaning 7 teams are going home without even attempting the main qualifying session. I understand a few teams are either being closed down altogether or merging wig another due to the new rules. Is there going to be more entries for next year or not?

I'm in support of not having any new teams until the year after (2016) to give those this year that didn't perform well a better chance of starting races next year.

I disagree, the more user involvement the better.

The MRT Group also agrees with Mr Forbes for the reasons stated (I'd assume he's the guy running your team Eurobrun).

Yes he is.

[Aerond]

About the entries thing; There´s 20 entries and there´ll never be more than this. However, I´d like to point out that I´d be in favour of reducing the number of entries to 17 or 18 in the future, taking the advantage that Grm and Arrowtech or Acuri will be out for next year.

[AndreaModa]

Personally I'm undecided on this issue. I sympathise with members like AdrianSutil an awful lot who are struggling to qualify for races, hence why I've really tried to push equalisation in terms of the rewards systems. It's a shame that seven teams are turned away after pre-qualifying, depriving members of participating in the enjoyment of the races themselves. On the other hand, we have the dilemma of potential members wanting to enter the series. DanielPT has already effectively taken over the Sunshine entry from SuperAguri, but the two remaining slots which will be created by Acuri/ArrowTech and GRM departures aren't yet finalised (what I mean is, we haven't had any real news either from Aerond, or the members themselves).

We therefore find ourselves in a similar position to where we were when the discussion over limiting members to a single team entry came about. One of the issues raised back then was the participation level of some members, which ultimately led to Kostas taking over the Trueba entry from Jack O Melley. We have to be realistic however and take into consideration members' commitments to the outside world. For example SuperAguri has a number of interests in the series currently, both with drivers and teams, yet hasn't been on very much at all recently. Now we could implement a rule that states members must at least make their presence known in the thread once every week or two perhaps, and that should someone fail to meet this criteria, their entry is handed to the next member waiting to join. But this is grossly unfair to members like SuperAguri who have been a part of the series for a long time now, clearly are committed to it, but just currently have other more pressing issues away from the forum. We have to bear in mind that this is just a game, and for the majority of people taking part, there are far more important things that demand their attention every once in a while. On this basis I believe we cannot enforce such a rule on a case by case basis depending on the member's historical levels of participation. Just because SuperAguri is an established contributor to the series, why should he get preferential treatment over a newer entrant? For example the case of Dofasco has already been raised, but I know for a fact that The Lukas has only in the past couple of days confirmed his team's engine and tyre choice for the RoLFS series, and so is a current active member on the forum. What exactly is he going to post about when his team have yet again failed to pre-qualify for the umpteenth time? And so we come full circle back to the problem of teams being left out of the main race.

Having gone through the issues above I feel it's only fair to cut entries to 18, regrettably meaning that eurobrun and the other as yet unknown new entrant would miss out for 2015, but would ensure more teams have a better chance of qualifying for the main race, ensuring that whilst in the short term there may be some anger and annoyance from members being denied entries, in the longer term when positions become available, those new entrants stand a far better chance at qualifying. Short term pain for long term gain.

As an aside, for members that haven't posted in a while, a quick polite email reminding them of the series and its progress may be an option to explore, to ensure they know it is still around and are encouraged to return and contribute, or alternatively if they no longer want to participate, move aside to allow someone else to take their place. At all times however we must remember to remain polite and courteous to each other. I don't want to see any slagging off of members who haven't perhaps contributed as much as others. Let's keep it clean and classy please.

[Stramala]

The alternative is, find a new programme for running the series that doesn't have this limitation. rFactor comes to mind. I think if anyone has it and has the time to run the series, this would be the ideal solution.

I always thought it was quite strange that the feeder series use GP4 and LFS respectively, two modern racing sims while the top tier F1RWRS series uses the archaic GP2. Perhaps time for an upgrade?

This way, we could increase the car limit slightly to perhaps 22 teams at most and not worry about pre-qualifying anymore. What I don't know however is the way in which this would affect the credit system and whether the upgrade system can be retained with this change.

[AdrianSutil]

A change of game to allow more entrants and do away with pre-qualifying sounds good. But if Aerond preferres to use GP2 then it is up to him. He's calling the shots.

Don't get me wrong, I don't get fed up being in pre-qualifying all the time, I'm just happy to be a part of it. However, I would get a little annoyed if a new member came in, picked up a half decent chassis/engine combo and immediately started qualifying for all the races and scoring points. All the time I've been waiting until the end of the season so I can spend my well-earned credits (pay-driver, pre-q cup, tv revenue etc), which then goes to waste when we suddenly fall further behind to a brand new team and participating member, especially one like Eurobrun who hasn't been around as long as myself.

It just seems a tad unfair, new teams shouldn't just waltz in, buy a deent package and start to blitz pre-qualifying, myself and others would be wasting ANOTHER year saving for the next season. And when 2016 comes around and no doubt ANOTHER new member joins, it'll probably happen again.

Some teams' performances change drastically year-on-year (Foxdale springs to mind), so I could buy a new engine or chassis next season and then I'm suddenly competitive. But if it doesn't happen, we have to try and improve what we have again. It takes time, as each season on here takes several months to complete. I can only Pretend to feel how fed up Shizuka is with his team right now.

[Stramala]

We should just abolish the new team rule. New teams cannot be formed, members can only join after buying and old team. This means no 1000 credits, they are given all the equipment of the old team that just quit had. Giving them 1000 credits would be unfair to myself, I did it the hard way, I bought a team with combined assets of far less than 1000 credits. I say we do away with the brand new teams rule and replace them with straightforward buyouts. In other words, when GRM are dissolved, the user that replaces them gets their chassis, engine, credits, the lot, and can do whatever they like with them.

[Shizuka]

I can only Pretend to feel how fed up Shizuka is with his team right now.

I'm not fed up with it actually. Bad luck and a bad, hasty decision - I'm still thinking about keeping the engine, but the chassis is going to be ditched.
(I know I barely post in the F1RTA and F1WRS topics, but I'm always reading every post though)

[AndreaModa]

We should just abolish the new team rule. New teams cannot be formed, members can only join after buying and old team. This means no 1000 credits, they are given all the equipment of the old team that just quit had. Giving them 1000 credits would be unfair to myself, I did it the hard way, I bought a team with combined assets of far less than 1000 credits. I say we do away with the brand new teams rule and replace them with straightforward buyouts. In other words, when GRM are dissolved, the user that replaces them gets their chassis, engine, credits, the lot, and can do whatever they like with them.

That still doesn't quite solve the problem though because GRM are hardly a rubbish team, in the same way Acuri and ArrowTech aren't either. All three can easily qualify for races, which is more than can be said for a lot of the teams currently in pre-qualifying. I think instead perhaps we should examine the budget for new teams, so instead of 1000 credits, how about 750?

Ultimately however, the budgetary decisions made by each member will decide the fate of their team. Examine the cases of both my team Jones Racing and GRM in 2013. Both came in late, but both were good enough to score good points, and my team even came away with a few wins. Both teams were handicapped by a chassis and engine list which was already depleted, yet both myself and TMLW were shrewd enough to pick packages that would work. For team owners who enter at the start of the year, there are far more options. We've already discussed Shonan's position in the main F1RWRS thread where their chassis and engine total less than half the original 1000 credit budget! The stats for the chassis and engines indicate which packages are better or worse, and it's down to the members themselves to select a package which they feel will do well. If members choose not to take the stats into account, the performance of their team suffers, for example Foxdale's in 2013.

Personally I can't really tolerate complaints from members about their team not being good enough in comparison to others because it is entirely their responsibility to manage their team properly. Stuff like the limits of the number of teams who qualify, or the amount of credits awarded that is out of their control should be actively discussed and, should there be a problem, rectified. Should we revert to removing new team entries as Kostas has suggested, this is a more contentious issue as members will be handed a package that could potentially be hopelessly uncompetitive, for example Klon taking over the CR Motorsport entry and renaming it Tropico for 2014. For this reason I believe we should continue to have new entries otherwise we'll be left with a load of uncompetitive entries that no-one wants to take over and leave members with no other way to enter the series.

So I'd tentatively suggest a change to a 750 credits budget for new entries entering from 2015 onwards, but I really am open to either side of the argument here. It would be nice to hear from other team owners currently in pre-qualifying and their thoughts on it all.

[Warren Hughes]

Well I chose to buy out an existing team (and a famous name to boot!) and in some ways I have been left to regret it, what with being stuck in pre-qualifying. Having said that, it's probably fair to say that I've made some less than great management decisions which have contributed to the position I'm in. I have no major complaints with the system as it is but I would agree with the proposal to cut the new teams' budget from 1000 to 750.

[Stramala]

I have another new series proposal for everyone.



With the previously fourth tier RoLFS now between F2RWRS and F3RWRS in terms of car spec, I felt it was perhaps time to make a series that met the needs of the proposed F3RWRS Academy which never materialised. My proposition is to run a Formula BMW RWRS, perhaps as a support series of RoLFS running the same calendar. My worry however is that this might be a feeder series too far, and that there would be a shortage of signups and drivers. I am therefore looking for feedback on this concept.

[AdrianSutil]

Well I chose to buy out an existing team (and a famous name to boot!) and in some ways I have been left to regret it, what with being stuck in pre-qualifying. Having said that, it's probably fair to say that I've made some less than great management decisions which have contributed to the position I'm in. I have no major complaints with the system as it is but I would agree with the proposal to cut the new teams' budget from 1000 to 750.

What team are you?! I don't think I've even seen you post in the F1RWRS thread

As for Kostas22's idea. No and no. There's already, I think, too many feeder series going about. There has to be a limit, otherwise it'll get ridiculous. Nice idea though.

[tommykl]

Well I chose to buy out an existing team (and a famous name to boot!) and in some ways I have been left to regret it, what with being stuck in pre-qualifying. Having said that, it's probably fair to say that I've made some less than great management decisions which have contributed to the position I'm in. I have no major complaints with the system as it is but I would agree with the proposal to cut the new teams' budget from 1000 to 750.

What team are you?! I don't think I've even seen you post in the F1RWRS thread

He has owned Prospec since the start of the season

[Warren Hughes]

Well I chose to buy out an existing team (and a famous name to boot!) and in some ways I have been left to regret it, what with being stuck in pre-qualifying. Having said that, it's probably fair to say that I've made some less than great management decisions which have contributed to the position I'm in. I have no major complaints with the system as it is but I would agree with the proposal to cut the new teams' budget from 1000 to 750.

What team are you?! I don't think I've even seen you post in the F1RWRS thread

He has owned Prospec since the start of the season

Yeah Adrian, pay attention

[AdrianSutil]

So YOU stole Kay Lon from under my nose

[dr-baker]

I have another new series proposal for everyone.



With the previously fourth tier RoLFS now between F2RWRS and F3RWRS in terms of car spec, I felt it was perhaps time to make a series that met the needs of the proposed F3RWRS Academy which never materialised. My proposition is to run a Formula BMW RWRS, perhaps as a support series of RoLFS running the same calendar. My worry however is that this might be a feeder series too far, and that there would be a shortage of signups and drivers. I am therefore looking for feedback on this concept.

Like AdrianSutil said, I think that it's a nice idea, but maybe one support series too far.

As far as new team entrants go, is there a way of implementing a promotion/relegation system? For example, Shonan has infamously DNPQed each race this season in F1RWRS, so could get relegated. But in doing so, because they effectively had experience in a higher category, that could be reflected in their stats for the lower series. Conversely, the best team in F2RWRS would be promoted and given 750 or 1000 credits. If a team has been demoted once then promoted again to F1RWRS, they ought to be given the same package as they had before, plus any credits earnt during their previous season in the category, (plus maybe an extra 50 to aid them?). For this to be effective, each member ought to enter their team(s) into a maximum of 2 categories across F1/F2/F3RWRS/LFS. If a team's promotion to F1RWRS means that one member ends up with two teams in the same category, the promoted team ought to be passed over and the slot given to the highest team not yet in the higher category. Ditto for demoting teams.

Does that make sense? Could it work? Would it satisfy everybody?

[Klon]

Does that make sense? Could it work? Would it satisfy everybody?

It makes sense and it could maybe work, but it would piss me off to the point of immediately abandoning Tropico Grand Prix since it's the same issue as the immediate introduction of the pay-dricer cap - I mean what do I spend my time trying to rebuild CR if that could be pulled like a rug from under my feet? The reduced budget for new teams might be a solution - another solution would be to have a new team, no matter whether taken over or completely new, picking their engine/chassis last so an established team that gets beaten by them handily is really a victim of racing darwinism.

[Nuppiz]

For example the case of Dofasco has already been raised, but I know for a fact that The Lukas has only in the past couple of days confirmed his team's engine and tyre choice for the RoLFS series, and so is a current active member on the forum.

Small correction - he hasn't yet confirmed his team's tyre supplier, along with another less-frequent poster Phoenix. And I almost gave his team's entry to MRT as he didn't post anything in the RoLFS topic for about two and a half weeks, despite having plenty of credits for upgrades, winning a couple of sprint races and being active in other topics. But he's now activated himself again.

Regarding the problem you're having with F1RWRS - I think that the current number of entries is fine, and it certainly mustn't be expanded. Yes, it is nice that every active forum member has a chance to get in to our top-level virtual motorsport series, but if half of the cars entered are eliminated come Friday afternoon, it just doesn't make sense. IIRC 1989 had the most entries in modern F1 history (if not in the whole F1 history), and it had 20 teams and 39 cars (would've been 40 if FIRST had made it). Despite that, only one team - EuroBrun - failed to make the grid at any of the GPs. I think that's what's lacking from F1RWRS - the element of randomness. If, for example, instead of using combined times of two drivers to determine which three teams go to qualifying proper, the top six drivers would get in instead? Of course, if this is impossible due to technical limitations of GP2, ignore that suggestion.

I won't take part in the discussion revolving around new teams' credits, except that you shouldn't give them too much compared to established teams. I had to address this problem myself in RoLFS, and managed to make a system that at least hasn't been opposed by anyone yet.

Regarding Formula BMW - technically it is possible, as it is also included in LFS (which is also how kostas got the picture above, editing the BMW skin and viewing it in the stand-alone skin viewer). And if we wanted to avoid using the BMW brand, there's the FXO car (loosely based on a mid-2000s Formula Renault), which we could rebrand as anything we wanted. However, I'm not 100% sure I could find the time to run two series, unless this smaller series would use spec-cars with no alterations (meaning less management work), and no footage would be provided (recording enough footage for RoLFS is a big task itself thanks to LFS' replay system). Just running it before each RoLFS GP wouldn't take too much of my time. Of course, if someone else acquired (either legally or illegally) a fully-licensed copy of LFS and was eager to run a new feeder series, then that problem would be solved. But, I also think that we're getting close to the maximum amount of virtual racing series a forum of this size can run (as evidenced by the failure of GTRWRS), so if the idea doesn't get any support then I won't even start planning it further.

[Stramala]

Regarding Formula BMW - technically it is possible, as it is also included in LFS (which is also how kostas got the picture above, editing the BMW skin and viewing it in the stand-alone skin viewer). And if we wanted to avoid using the BMW brand, there's the FXO car (loosely based on a mid-2000s Formula Renault), which we could rebrand as anything we wanted. However, I'm not 100% sure I could find the time to run two series, unless this smaller series would use spec-cars with no alterations (meaning less management work), and no footage would be provided (recording enough footage for RoLFS is a big task itself thanks to LFS' replay system). Just running it before each RoLFS GP wouldn't take too much of my time. Of course, if someone else acquired (either legally or illegally) a fully-licensed copy of LFS and was eager to run a new feeder series, then that problem would be solved. But, I also think that we're getting close to the maximum amount of virtual racing series a forum of this size can run (as evidenced by the failure of GTRWRS), so if the idea doesn't get any support then I won't even start planning it further.

No no, I was going to run the series using LFS. And yes, I was thinking about doing a spec series to inject more randomness into the results, but not sure about that yet. I think perhaps the problem with GTRWRS was that it was an active rather than passive series, meaning more time and effort required from participants they didn't want to give. The last point may be the sticking point though, the amount of virtual series may have reached critical mass by now.

[the Masked Lapwing]

My two cents:

On the new teams issue, I reckon it should stay the way it is. With me and Jeremy getting rid of our second teams, there's room for two new entrants, eurobrun (I think, I can't remember who's on the reserve list) and MinardiFan (who already has a driver confirmed for next year), plus DanielPT taking over Sunshine makes three new members. The 750 credit budget for new teams I agree with, as it stops not only the newer teams from being stuck in PQ for a few seasons but stops established but struggling teams (Prospec for example) from leaving as well.

On the feeder series: No. I wasn't really happy with the RoLFS being an RWRS feeder series to be honest, but another one is going too far.

[AndreaModa]

Does that make sense? Could it work? Would it satisfy everybody?

It makes sense and it could maybe work, but it would piss me off to the point of immediately abandoning Tropico Grand Prix since it's the same issue as the immediate introduction of the pay-dricer cap - I mean what do I spend my time trying to rebuild CR if that could be pulled like a rug from under my feet? The reduced budget for new teams might be a solution - another solution would be to have a new team, no matter whether taken over or completely new, picking their engine/chassis last so an established team that gets beaten by them handily is really a victim of racing darwinism.

And you also face the complication that pretty much all of the teams in the lower categories are junior teams of those in the F1RWRS, for example Jones Racing. Nice idea, but I don't think it can really work.

As for the FBMW idea, again I think the lack of any real interest in the academy concept confirms that we're pretty much at the limit as far as series are concerned. Plus the Rally championship as well now, it means everyone is pretty busy with other stuff!

[eurobrun]

I just want to get a team in the F1RWRS somehow and think it would be completely unfair to the people on the waiting list to reduce the number of entries.

[Wizzie]

I for one disagree with reducing the number of entries as well as reducing the new-teams budget on the basis that it wouldn't really be fair to the new teams to start on a handicap plus everyone here seems to have forgotten that the technical regulations are being overhauled for next year to bring the field much, much closer anyway.

[This]

On the subject of reaching the maximum virtual racing series: i think the problem is that there are way too many ghost series. By that i mean series that haven't run a single race or only a few races.
And that makes things not only complicated, it doesn't motivate people to participate in series, not knowing if the series will actually run or not. You can see that those who run frequently or are running for a longer period are quite popular.

Also active series are less popular, because some people - like me - aren't really gamers, but love to participate in passive championships.

On the subject of F1RWRS, it doesn't matter much to me, as long as the rules are stated obvious somewhere. I don't have a team yet, but i'm not frustrated about it, as long as i can keep my driver(s) active.

[AndreaModa]

I for one disagree with reducing the number of entries as well as reducing the new-teams budget on the basis that it wouldn't really be fair to the new teams to start on a handicap plus everyone here seems to have forgotten that the technical regulations are being overhauled for next year to bring the field much, much closer anyway.

There's no handicap there though. They'll be directly competing against the bottom teams of this season in pre-qualifying to start with, and pretty much all of them will be changing either their chassis, engine or both, meaning that they'll be virtually starting from scratch as well, only with less credits than the comparatively 'rich' new teams should they be allowed a 1000 credit budget. It's in fact a handicap for the existing teams paradoxically because they may actually find themselves picking a whole new package with fewer credits.

The changes to the regulations next year will bring the pack closer, but nothing will change as far as the backmarkers are concerned. The banning of turbos will simply haul in DGN, MRT and Sunshine and that's basically it. A limit on the maximum power for each engine will have an effect in future, but not now. It will do nothing to address the issues currently faced by backmarker teams mired in pre-qualifying, just give midfield teams like my own a genuine chance to challenge for a pole position, fastest lap or a race win in normal conditions.

I think a genuine issue over fairness and competition has been raised here, and I think that to ensure the series remains fair, and enjoyable for all, then we should aim to try and ensure that both new entries and existing struggling ones are given an equal chance to fight to be a part of the main field. We have some excellent contributors trapped in pre-qualifying who would really add some character to the race weekends were they able to qualify, but currently that isn't the case.

[Aerond]

I think that, if teams had 1000 credits to start the 2013 season, new teams must also enjoy that ammount, considering that they´re somehow already behind the rest of the teams. If we gave a new team 750 credits, it wouldn´t qualify for any race, therefore making it very frustrating. It´s just a matter of circumstances that a new team enters and it helps keeping things fresh. Not every exiting team owner will want his team continue in any way and not every entering team owner will want to pick from another team, but have complete control from the beggining.

As for GRM, it´s closing and I believe Dave Simpson will get his own team from the beggining. As for Acuri//Arrowtech, I don´t know what´s happening yet. That entry will go to Eurobrun, who´s next on the waiting list, leaving This and Pointrox as the only members waiting for something to happen.

[Aerond]

I think a genuine issue over fairness and competition has been raised here, and I think that to ensure the series remains fair, and enjoyable for all, then we should aim to try and ensure that both new entries and existing struggling ones are given an equal chance to fight to be a part of the main field. We have some excellent contributors trapped in pre-qualifying who would really add some character to the race weekends were they able to qualify, but currently that isn't the case.

I think it´ll be more levelled in future seasons as engines available are more equal to each other. I plan to reach a point where there´s not more than 100bhp between the best and worst engine. Also, new additions to the list of chassis and engines will be public before the market is opened, so we don´t have cases like Shizuka this year.

[Wizzie]

I think a genuine issue over fairness and competition has been raised here, and I think that to ensure the series remains fair, and enjoyable for all, then we should aim to try and ensure that both new entries and existing struggling ones are given an equal chance to fight to be a part of the main field. We have some excellent contributors trapped in pre-qualifying who would really add some character to the race weekends were they able to qualify, but currently that isn't the case.

I think it´ll be more levelled in future seasons as engines available are more equal to each other. I plan to reach a point where there´s not more than 100bhp between the best and worst engine. Also, new additions to the list of chassis and engines will be public before the market is opened, so we don´t have cases like Shizuka this year.

Didn't you say earlier that was entirely his own fault though?

[Aerond]

I think a genuine issue over fairness and competition has been raised here, and I think that to ensure the series remains fair, and enjoyable for all, then we should aim to try and ensure that both new entries and existing struggling ones are given an equal chance to fight to be a part of the main field. We have some excellent contributors trapped in pre-qualifying who would really add some character to the race weekends were they able to qualify, but currently that isn't the case.

I think it´ll be more levelled in future seasons as engines available are more equal to each other. I plan to reach a point where there´s not more than 100bhp between the best and worst engine. Also, new additions to the list of chassis and engines will be public before the market is opened, so we don´t have cases like Shizuka this year.

Didn't you say earlier that was entirely his own fault though?

Of course the choice was his and had much better choices, but it´s more a case of me not having advantage over this than anything else; and it also gives competitors the chance to know when the market will open so they can plan instead of coming around and see that their favourite option just happened to be taken by someone else who was luckier to be around earlier.

[Wizzie]

I think it´ll be more levelled in future seasons as engines available are more equal to each other. I plan to reach a point where there´s not more than 100bhp between the best and worst engine. Also, new additions to the list of chassis and engines will be public before the market is opened, so we don´t have cases like Shizuka this year.

Didn't you say earlier that was entirely his own fault though?

Of course the choice was his and had much better choices, but it´s more a case of me not having advantage over this than anything else; and it also gives competitors the chance to know when the market will open so they can plan instead of coming around and see that their favourite option just happened to be taken by someone else who was luckier to be around earlier.

I guess that makes sense. While you're at it, you might want to reduce the cost of the Jordan 191 chassis on the basis that it makes absolutely no sense that it's the most expensive when it's nowhere near the best one out there. And speaking of 2015, can you add 45 points to Macklin's base qualifying and race pace as part of the driver development scheme I've got going in the F2RWRS?

[AndreaModa]

If those team bosses accept this, then I'm happy to run with it as well. Ultimately Aerond has the best knowledge of how the game operates and how the different chassis and engines will perform. If he feels the system is working okay, then I'm happy to trust his judgement - at least until something is clearly horribly wrong!

Aerond/Wizzie, approximately how much of an influence will that 45 points have on Macklin's performance percentage or otherwise?

[Aerond]

If those team bosses accept this, then I'm happy to run with it as well. Ultimately Aerond has the best knowledge of how the game operates and how the different chassis and engines will perform. If he feels the system is working okay, then I'm happy to trust his judgement - at least until something is clearly horribly wrong!

Aerond/Wizzie, approximately how much of an influence will that 45 points have on Macklin's performance percentage or otherwise?

It´s 0,10% faster. I´d like to be reminded how that scheme works, wizzie

[Wizzie]

Aerond/Wizzie, approximately how much of an influence will that 45 points have on Macklin's performance percentage or otherwise?

The difference on GP4 is also only about 0.1%

For F2RWRS drivers, they get performance points for the first 45 championship races they do in the category. For the first 15 races (I.e first full season) they get 45 points for both qualifying and race performance (3 points a race). For the next 15 races they get 30 points (2 points a race) and for the last 15 they get 15 points (1 point a race). I chose those numbers because it was easy to adapt the system for both full-time and part-time drivers.

[AndreaModa]

Aerond/Wizzie, approximately how much of an influence will that 45 points have on Macklin's performance percentage or otherwise?

The difference on GP4 is also only about 0.1%

For F2RWRS drivers, they get performance points for the first 45 championship races they do in the category. For the first 15 races (I.e first full season) they get 45 points for both qualifying and race performance (3 points a race). For the next 15 races they get 30 points (2 points a race) and for the last 15 they get 15 points (1 point a race). I chose those numbers because it was easy to adapt the system for both full-time and part-time drivers.

I understand, so the finishing position of the driver has no bearing on the number of points they get? Seems like a reasonable way to develop the driver's talent.

[Wizzie]

Aerond/Wizzie, approximately how much of an influence will that 45 points have on Macklin's performance percentage or otherwise?

The difference on GP4 is also only about 0.1%

For F2RWRS drivers, they get performance points for the first 45 championship races they do in the category. For the first 15 races (I.e first full season) they get 45 points for both qualifying and race performance (3 points a race). For the next 15 races they get 30 points (2 points a race) and for the last 15 they get 15 points (1 point a race). I chose those numbers because it was easy to adapt the system for both full-time and part-time drivers.

I understand, so the finishing position of the driver has no bearing on the number of points they get? Seems like a reasonable way to develop the driver's talent.

No. That'd take too much effort for what's turning into a cost-saving exercise for teams more than anything else.

[Stramala]

Looks like FBMWRWRS has zero support so not going ahead

[Shizuka]

Didn't you say earlier that was entirely his own fault though?

It actually was, but since I plan to keep the engine, I'd only swap the chassis.
Basically anything could be better than this, with maybe the exception of S921 and L190 (are they even possible to buy? ). For next year, my target is to pre-qualify once. ONCE. I do not have high targets, so a modest step forward is the best to target, so that would be achievable easily by ditching the chassis and buying a new one with... I dunno, about 300 credits the team will have.

About the 750 credit limit: go ahead with it. A learning curve is good to have (points finger at self ), so we wouldn't see a dominating new team next year.