F1Rejects.com

by **Irisado** » 17 May 2009, 03:25

RejectSteve wrote:Massimiliano Papis had a short but forgettable F1 career (even being outqualified by Taki Inoue once)

I think he quite a memorable career actually, breaking his suspension against the pit exit wall at Silverstone on debut was quite a memorable way to retire from your first Grand Prix, although crashing in the pits seemed like 'la moda' in 1995 (Coulthard and Moreno did it at Adelaide that year), and being too rough with gearboxes was enough for the Arrows team to tell the press that he was just too rough with them (he broke his gearbox off the line at Hockenheim, and at the first start at Estoril), and being outqualified by Inoue three times was memorable too in my view, albeit for all the wrong reasons.

by **deCrasheris** » 17 May 2009, 09:54

Now Max Papis is a part time driver in Nascar Sprint Cup.

by **Waris** » 23 May 2009, 11:29

Jorge de Bagration?

But yeah, drivers that give you this "oh yeah, and there was this one too" feeling. Most I had in mind are already mentioned.

Edited to add: Oh, this might seem strange, but Christian Klien is also pretty forgettable in my opinion, now that I think of it.

Edited once more to add: Enrico Bertaggia, Oscar Larrauri come to mind?

by **Popi_Larrauri** » 23 May 2009, 12:53

You are forgetting maybe one of the best japanese drivers (after Sato, Suzuki and Katayama), a japanese guy ho had talent but never had good machinery....

I really must say "Shame on you" not to have named the guy in at least the 200+ post I have read about rejectdom...

Mister Tora-Tora Takagi!!!!!

1998 at the command of the lastest ever Tyrrell 026 - Ford Zetec V10 (clearly faster than OicardR TosseR (remember at least a stunning 13th at Melbourne), and a year in Arrows in a forgettable A19 (A20?) in wich prince Ali-Ibrahim got involved at Wilkinshow team with it's T-minus brand.

PD: Gotcha! (admit it, for once I surprised you)

.

by **Valrys** » 23 May 2009, 20:30

I've never forgotten Tora! In fact, despite being too young to have a long enough attention span to watch a GP back then, I've always had a soft spot for him and I have no idea why. It's a shame the 99 Arrows wasn't a better car, as he pretty much blew the doors of Rossett in 98, and wasn't too bad compared to De la Rosa in 99.

I also followed him in CART and IRL, at least he was somewhat successful during those years

by **Irisado** » 24 May 2009, 04:48

I don't think Takagi is that forgettable actually. I remember his Grand Prix debut vividly, not only for his thirteenth place on the grid, but also for getting caught up in the multiple pile up on lap two of that race.

I also remember his collision with Tuero's Minardi at that year's season ending Japanese Grand Prix, which was allegedly a contributory factor to Tuero's mysterious exit from Formula 1, and while that collision was hardly Takagi's fault, his spectacular crash over the top of Badoer's Minardi in one of the most inept overtaking manoeuvres I've ever seen at the 1999 Italian Grand Prix was most definitely his fault in my view.

All these incidents make him far too memorable in my view.

by **Barbazza** » 24 May 2009, 06:36

Watching the Monaco GP from 96 again sent me to my yearbooks and I must admit that I'd totally forgotten about Giovanni Lavaggi pootling about very slowly in the Minardi.

by **shinji** » 24 May 2009, 07:54

George Abecassis
Kenny Acheson
Andrea de Adamich
Philippe Adams
Walt Ader
Kurt Adolff
Fred Agabashian
Kurt Ahrens, Jr.

And that's just the As.

Copied from Wikipedia though, I think most of them were from Indy. Why did they count it? It's messed up records ever since.

by **Python** » 24 May 2009, 12:26

watka wrote:Shinji Nakano and Cristano Da Matta weren't the most exciting drivers ever...

Cristano Da Matta wasn't in the best car, so I think if he would have been with a better team he probably would have done better.

by **Popi_Larrauri** » 24 May 2009, 14:09

Irisado wrote:I don't think Takagi is that forgettable actually. I remember his Grand Prix debut vividly, not only for his thirteenth place on the grid, but also for getting caught up in the multiple pile up on lap two of that race.

I also remember his collision with Tuero's Minardi at that year's season ending Japanese Grand Prix, which was allegedly a contributory factor to Tuero's mysterious exit from Formula 1, and while that collision was hardly Takagi's fault, his spectacular crash over the top of Badoer's Minardi in one of the most inept overtaking manoeuvres I've ever seen at the 1999 Italian Grand Prix was most definitely his fault in my view.

All these incidents make him far too memorable in my view.

I'm not saying that it's forgettable. Actually I consider him one above average driver with not machinery on his nads (no new Schumi neither). But the curious fact it's that he actually qualifies as reject since he had never scored and I have never read of him in this site or forum except for the Tuero stepping on the wrong pedal at Japan. I don't even remebered him until this thread. And that's the whole point of it, in'st it?.

by **RejectSteve** » 24 May 2009, 14:44

If I remember correctly (though I probably don't), wasn't Takagi the fastest Ford-powered qualifier at the first three grands prix of 1998? Other than his two aeroborne accidents, he also gave his feedback to engineers on paper, with a trackmap and small drawing section for entry/apex/exit on each corner because he couldn't speak English during his year at Tyrrell.

by **andreamodawf1** » 24 May 2009, 16:56

Marcel Balsa
Henry Banks
Joh Barber
Skip Barber
Paolo Barilla
Michael Bartels
Edgar Barth
Giorgoi Bassi
Erwin Bauer
Elie Bayol
Don Beauman
Bernd Nacke, or watevr his name was cos he kept chamging it
theres lots

by **Popi_Larrauri** » 24 May 2009, 17:16

RejectSteve wrote:If I remember correctly (though I probably don't), wasn't Takagi the fastest Ford-powered qualifier at the first three grands prix of 1998? Other than his two aeroborne accidents, he also gave his feedback to engineers on paper, with a trackmap and small drawing section for entry/apex/exit on each corner because he couldn't speak English during his year at Tyrrell.

Well, there is an excellent interview to Rosset in another thread that throws new light on the Issue Tyrrell-Reynard-Rosset-Takagi-Honda. To me, some especific affirmations given by Rosset are a bit confusing. Honda, in fact, took a lot before entering in it's own right as team (in 1998 only providing engines via Mugen to Jordan. Bar had Mechachrome engines instead for 19999). He may have had an special treatment, but the whole team seemed to be on a politic-limbo. And that may have ruin his effort even if he had number 1 status.

But, anyways, pen and paper, japanese or flare signals, in early season (where smaller teams still don't suffer from underdevelopment) he proved to be fast enough. The Arrows A20 was appalling to the point of demoralization. In fact, that car seemed to be two or three years older than the rest of the field (at least in aero bodyworks). And even De La Rosa was unimpressive with it, bar from Melbourne attrition.

by **Valrys** » 24 May 2009, 20:54

Popi_Larrauri wrote:
RejectSteve wrote:
The Arrows A20 was appalling to the point of demoralization. In fact, that car seemed to be two or three years older than the rest of the field (at least in aero bodyworks). And even De La Rosa was unimpressive with it, bar from Melbourne attrition.

If I remember correctly, the A20 was pretty much the A19 with a new paint job and a couple of aero updates, and the A19 was slow and unreliable.

Here's a good video showing just how bad the damn thing was
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iego8PRP00g

by **crazydude1992** » 25 May 2009, 02:12

Ricardo Zonta is pretty forgettable...

by **Barbazza** » 25 May 2009, 04:52

Valrys wrote:If I remember correctly, the A20 was pretty much the A19 with a new paint job and a couple of aero updates, and the A19 was slow and unreliable.

Here's a good video showing just how bad the damn thing was
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iego8PRP00g

That is truly horrific, I think he deserves a medal just for getting that thing round without it over(or under? it seemed to be both)steering into a wall.

by **Irisado** » 25 May 2009, 08:37

The Arrows A20 suffered from a complete lack of funds (the T minus sponsorship was a total failure), being a scarcely updated A19, an underpowered engine, and woeful unreliability, so it wasn't great. I can't remember if it was Arrows or BAR which had the more mechanical failures in 1999, but Arrows were totally outclassed by Minardi in terms of reliability in 1999, and in the second half of the year their performance was noticeably worse too.

Anyway, back on topic, I think Zonta would be noteworthy of being forgettable were it not for that huge crash in qualifying at Spa in 1999 (a.k.a. the BAR crash fest), and that nasty crash in practice at the Brazilian Grand Prix earlier on that year which forced him to miss the next two or three races.

On Giovanni Lavaggi, how can someone with a name that translates to Johnny Carwash be forgettable? :lol:

. Just to clarify as well that he only drove the last six races for Minardi in 1996, and was instrumental in holding up Schumacher, so that Villeneuve could pass him during the Portuguese Grand Prix, so he did do something memorable that year.

by **Jack O Malley** » 25 May 2009, 20:01

Toshio Suzuki... In JAP and AUS 1993 there were two Suzukis on the grid!

by **Popi_Larrauri** » 25 May 2009, 22:36

Barbazza wrote:
Valrys wrote:If I remember correctly, the A20 was pretty much the A19 with a new paint job and a couple of aero updates, and the A19 was slow and unreliable.

Here's a good video showing just how bad the damn thing was
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iego8PRP00g

That is truly horrific, I think he deserves a medal just for getting that thing round without it over(or under? it seemed to be both)steering into a wall.

Isn't it?

While I was watching I was thinking "Well, and here comes the massive spin... oh, damn, he kept it on, but here on R130 comes the big shunt... damn it ! Again!"... and even more, the commentator, at the end of the video, says he was still ahead of someone... pace car tihrd partial?

It's almost painful to watch it, and gives oversteer (and mercy from a¿our side) a whole new meaning.

by **fjackdaw** » 28 May 2009, 02:19

Zonta was also the fourth "champion" into the 1999 Wall Of Champions that claimed Schumacher, Hill and Villeneuve in Canada. Zonda was the reigning sportscar champion that year.

by **watka** » 28 May 2009, 23:09

shinji wrote:

Kurt Ahrens, Jr.

Don't disrespect this guy, he used to hold the land speed record if I'm not very much mistaken!

by **Faustus** » 28 May 2009, 23:25

watka wrote:
shinji wrote:

Kurt Ahrens, Jr.

Don't disrespect this guy, he used to hold the land speed record if I'm not very much mistaken!

Are you sure?

by **watka** » 29 May 2009, 01:17

I am very much mistaken, I'm thinking of Art Arfons Jr. Although I think he raced in F1 or Indycar.

by **Frentzen127** » 29 May 2009, 07:41

the commentator, at the end of the video, says he was still ahead of someone... pace car tihrd partial?

He managed to beat PDLR's time with that god-awful lap:

19th Toranosuke Takagi Arrows 1:41.067 +3.597

He was almost a second faster than Pedro here, who qualified 21st.

by **Popi_Larrauri** » 30 May 2009, 07:53

Frentzen127 wrote:the commentator, at the end of the video, says he was still ahead of someone... pace car tihrd partial?

He managed to beat PDLR's time with that god-awful lap:

19th Toranosuke Takagi Arrows 1:41.067 +3.597

He was almost a second faster than Pedro here, who qualified 21st.

Well, since PDLR was in the same kind of machinery (and we are being generous to say machinery to that crap), we can say he was also victim of the oversteer malestrom over the head of Arrows mechanichs.

All we got left to do is to stand up, raise our beer and shout "Go! Go! Tora!"

by **jackanderton** » 30 May 2009, 08:22

Zanardi (purely on F1 performances)
Mika Salo (middle of the road performer)

Cristiano Da Matta was probably better than Zonta, arguably better than Panis was at the time, though nowhere near as good as Olivier in his prime.

If it wasn't for his frequent media appearances and nationality, Anthony Davidson.

Tempted to say Heikki Kovaleinen but he's involved in so many farcial episodes nowadays he's memorable for all the wrong reasons.

by **DonTirri** » 30 May 2009, 19:59

jackanderton wrote:Mika Salo (middle of the road performer)

I wouldn't call Salo forgettable, he is memorable for being the only man to go full distance without a pitstop since 94.

by **Pedro_Diniz** » 30 May 2009, 21:00

DonTirri wrote:
jackanderton wrote:Mika Salo (middle of the road performer)

I wouldn't call Salo forgettable, he is memorable for being the only man to go full distance without a pitstop since 94.

I'll always remember him for being Schumacher's stand-in at Ferrari.

by **Valrys** » 30 May 2009, 22:15

DonTirri wrote:
jackanderton wrote:Mika Salo (middle of the road performer)

I wouldn't call Salo forgettable, he is memorable for being the only man to go full distance without a pitstop since 94.

When did he do that?

by **RejectSteve** » 30 May 2009, 22:48

Valrys wrote:
DonTirri wrote:
jackanderton wrote:Mika Salo (middle of the road performer)

I wouldn't call Salo forgettable, he is memorable for being the only man to go full distance without a pitstop since 94.

When did he do that?

Monaco '96, wasn't it? He scored points when only four cars made it home in a wild race of rain, collisions, and engine explosions.

by **Popi_Larrauri** » 30 May 2009, 23:22

[/quote]

I wouldn't call Salo forgettable, he is memorable for being the only man to go full distance without a pitstop since 94.[/quote]
When did he do that?[/quote]
Monaco '96, wasn't it? He scored points when only four cars made it home in a wild race of rain, collisions, and engine explosions.[/quote]

Nope, It was Monaco 1997, Tyrrell-Ford ED5 V8, 5th place and last ever points for Tyrrell. Due to an engine with low fuel consumption, heavy rain in most of the race and the gamble to stay on track since he was an outstanding fifth, Ken asked him to remain on track.

In Monaco 1996 he had a crash with Irvine in last laps and was qualified 5th too, but he didn't completed full race distance and probably had pitted.

by **Popi_Larrauri** » 30 May 2009, 23:32

DonTirri wrote:
jackanderton wrote:Mika Salo (middle of the road performer)

I wouldn't call Salo forgettable, he is memorable for being the only man to go full distance without a pitstop since 94.

Salo is probably the 1990-2000 driver with most (Second I guess is Verstappen) teams to his back: I remember, without Wikipedia on hand, that he ran for:

1) Lotus
2) McLaren
3) Tyrrell
4) Arrows
5) BAR
6) Ferrari
7) Toyota

Jos "The boss" Verstappen ran for:

1) Benetton
2) Simtek
3) Arrows
4) Tyrrell (with Salo)
5) Stewart
6) Minardi

Very difficult to forget!

by **DonTirri** » 31 May 2009, 01:22

correct otherwise but salo never drove for macca, but he did drive for Sauber

by **Popi_Larrauri** » 31 May 2009, 02:46

DonTirri wrote:correct otherwise but salo never drove for macca, but he did drive for Sauber

You are right. I confused Salo early career with Hakkinen one.

by **Barbazza** » 31 May 2009, 06:54

Popi_Larrauri wrote:

In Monaco 1996 he had a crash with Irvine in last laps and was qualified 5th too, but he didn't completed full race distance and probably had pitted.[/quote]

Not quite. He was involved in the hilarious low speed crash near the end of the race where Irvine clouted the barrier roughly where Schumi had on lap 1, was trying to recover, Salo came round the corner at full speed and bumped into him as he was unsighted, then Hakkinen bumped into Salo, leaving all 3 nose to tail against the barrier. A true classic.

by **WeirdKerr** » 31 May 2009, 07:18

until this year..... i would of said Jenson Button....

by **dr-baker** » 31 May 2009, 07:23

Just read a Formula 2 preview today and it read that all previous F2 champs (1967-1984) became F1 drivers. Brian Henton was mentioned as an F2 champ. He was forgettable. Doesn't have a profile on F1 Rejects. Does he deserve one?

by **DonTirri** » 31 May 2009, 08:14

dr-baker wrote:Just read a Formula 2 preview today and it read that all previous F2 champs (1967-1984) became F1 drivers. Brian Henton was mentioned as an F2 champ. He was forgettable. Doesn't have a profile on F1 Rejects. Does he deserve one?

According to Wikipedia he does.

Brian Henton
Formula One World Championship career
Active years 1975, 1977, 1981 - 1982
Teams Lotus, March, British F1 Racing, Boro, Toleman, Arrows, Tyrrell
Races 37 (19 starts)
Championships 0
Wins 0
Podiums 0
Career points 0
Pole positions 0
Fastest laps 1
First race 1975 British Grand Prix
Last race 1982 Caesars Palace Grand Prix

by **thehemogoblin** » 31 May 2009, 13:04

Not too many F1 Rejects can claim a fastest lap to their credit...

by **jackanderton** » 01 Jun 2009, 23:08

Oooh,

-Antonio Pizzonia

So forgettable I forgot about him. Surely the most effective test of the lot.

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