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F1 Rejects Interview with Jonathan Williams
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In 1966, Jonathan Williams had 8 wins in European and Italian F3 over the previous two years under his belt, and was one of the top young hotshots on the motor racing scene. His talent caught the eye of Ferrari and he was signed as a works driver.
But while his talents were roundly wasted by the most famous marque in motorsport, Williams did receive an opportunity in Mexico to start his one-and-only Formula One race, in a Ferrari 312. After leaving Maranello, Williams continued in F2, and in particular sportscars, including an unforgettable entry at Le Mans in 1970. He co-piloted the Porsche 908 that gathered in-car footage for Steve McQueen's seminal motor racing film "Le Mans". Williams' kindly responded to F1 Rejects' questions about his time at Ferrari, the film, the early days of his career, and more. For full details of Williams' F1 race, and information on his career, please see our Jonathan Williams biography. |
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• How did you meet the likes of Piers Courage and Sheridan Thynne?
In 1960 I was a student in London at the Chelsea College of Aeronautical & Automobile Engineering, affectionately known as "The College of Knowledge". A fellow student, Mark Fielden (who was tragically killed at Silverstone in a freak accident), introduced me to Piers and Sherry with whom he had been at school (Eton). We were all crazy about cars, and ended up sharing an apartment in Lower Sloane Street - cheap then, rather smart now. | |
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• What are some of your early memories of Frank Williams?
I met Frank at Mallory Park in 1961. I crashed my Mini on the damp track at the very fast Gerards corner, and then sat on top of the bank watching the suicidal antics of someone driving a grey Austin A35. Inevitably it crashed and finished on its roof, and I helped Frank get out. We spent the time until the race ended discussing how to get our respective cars raceworthy ASAP, without having any money available. Piers had come along to help me, and that is when he met Frank for the first time. We all hit it off and became great friends. | |
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• Could you please share some of your experiences from living hand-to-mouth during that season of F3 on the continent in 1964?
The situation then was the following: a burning desire to race, but inadequate funds to do so. A solution was found when I discovered that in Continental Europe a system of "starting money" existed, which served to guarantee the race organisers a reasonable starting grid, at races which were often just an annual affair, run on public roads, temporally closed off. The amount was usually around £UK 100, quite adequate to keep body and soul together until the next weekend, providing serious damage to the car was avoided. It was as near to perpetual motion as you could get. Obviously, hotels were out of the question. I slept on an air mattress between the wheels of my Lotus, housed in the back of my VW pickup with a canvas top. Piers slept across the front seat of his Ford Zephyr, but he was too tall, and had to keep one door ajar. In Italy, we would sleep overnight parked in the Agip petrol stations. They had free hot showers, and a little bar, so we started the day with a cappuccino and croissant. Not too bad. In Germany, the rest stations had pay showers, 10 Pfennigs (ie. nothing), if I remember correctly, but I imagine that we weren't very clean. Make no mistake, these were happy times. Having left the grey skies of the UK, I remember the joy I felt, sitting in the dark on the patio of a roadside restaurant in southern Italy, in the balmy summer air, watching geckos on the ochre coloured wall hunting insects. In 1963, Frank Williams and I spent a week sleeping on a beach in the boot of Italy. We lived off grapes, stolen furtively in the night. The only money we had left was sufficient to pay the ferry to Sicily, where I was to race at Enna. To have spent it would have broken the starting money cycle, and resulted in failure. The circuit, named after the nearby village of Pergusa, was around a lake, and with a bit of 'psyching up' could be lapped without lifting off. Quite a few cars went in the water, but the reeds cushioned the impact. The disagreeable part, was removing the dead snakes that were always wrapped around the car's suspension after such an episode! Today the place has been lobotomised with the usual chicanes. East Germany was interesting. After passing the frontier with its goon towers, I would sleep alongside the concrete Autobahn, probably something not allowed. Never once, after dark, did another vehicle pass by. I nearly came to grief there: my 1300cc VW was grossly overloaded, so any descent was an opportunity to build up energy for the following climb. While doing this, and achieving about 70mph, at the last moment I saw that the section of bridge in the valley on my side had been removed (to recover the steel, no doubt) and I had to change sides in a rather tight "S" bend. Made it, just! | |
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• How did the Ferrari opportunity arise? Did you have any second thoughts about signing for Maranello?
I think that it is very unlikely that a young driver would turn down an offer to drive for Ferrari. In my case, the prospects looked good, with an F2 car that, on paper, should have been superior to the Cosworth powered cars. Ferrari's dealer for Rome (where I lived), Goaccino Vari approached me, and we went up to Maranello one Sunday and did the deal. | |
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• At Ferrari, you seemed to spend much of your time driving sports cars and also testing road cars. Did you feel as though they were utilising you well?
No. In 1966, I had been winning a lot of races in F3 for the Italian constructor De Sanctis. Ferrari wasn't doing too well, and we got more and better press on Monday mornings. Maybe Enzo wanted me out of circulation! | |
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• What was the camaraderie like between the Ferrari drivers and mechanics? Did the infamous Ferrari politics ever affect you?
The mechanics were a wonderful bunch, Borsari, Pignati and the rest. There is nothing they wouldn't do for you, and they knew the score. The politics was awful, unhelpful and destabilising. I came in from a small family run team where everyone was pulling in the same direction, and I found it very hard to understand. I would get called by the race department to have a seat fitting for, say a Dino for the Monza 1000kms, but the same day Franco Gozzi would deny any knowledge that I was entered. Madness. Also, I spoke fluent Italian, so I understood what was going on. Chris Amon was protected to some extent, by his total Italian vocabulary being 'Campari Soda'. | |
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• What are some of your personal recollections of Enzo Ferrari and Mauro Forghieri?
Enzo screwed me the day he signed me to drive. He offered me a reasonable monthly sum which I accepted, but on the way out of the interview, mentioned that Shell UK would shoulder half the bill. When I approached Shell on the subject, they denied all knowledge of the deal, but did come up with £1000, out of pity for my plight. Mauro Forghieri was (and is) a genius. A brilliant mind, and a very likeable man too. I disappointed him when in 1967 I told him that I wasn't able to translate Procol Harem's hit "A Whiter Shade of Pale" into Italian for him, which he had requested. | |
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• All in all, did you enjoy the chance to race the F1 car in Mexico, and did you enjoy the year at Ferrari in general?
No. When I was dragged to Mexico by Franco Lini (I would have preferred to wait in California) no mention was made that I might drive. My method was always to start gently and work myself in. Here was an unknown circuit, and a car I had never driven. I think that if I had had the car fitted for my physical size, and been allowed to drive in both practice sessions, I would have finished in the points. | |
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• Why was the Abarth F1 project never likely to get off the ground? Did the actual design have any potential? How far did they get?
I think that the Abarth F1 project may have existed to get some money out of Fiat. Or, that they had this V8 engine lying around and wanted to do something with it. The design had no potential, being early 60's Cooper, welded tube, chalk-marks-on-the-floor technology. It never turned a wheel. | |
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• What are your memories of the 1968 Monza Lotteria, which you won for Frank Williams in a brilliantly close finish?
That was one very hard race. Monza without chicanes was a pure slipstreaming track, something that I was good at. Notwithstanding, I missed a good tow in practice, and started in the middle of the field. I was convinced that there would be a accident, and after the start, made haste up to the front end. Fairly early on, checking my mirrors coming out of the Parabolica, I saw fire, cars in the air etc, and felt a glow of relief, thinking, correctly, that things would be much easier now. On the last lap there were four of us in the leading group, Alan Rees (Brabham), Robin Widdows and Jo Schlesser (McLarens). The McLarens were marginally slower in a straight line, so all I had to do was convince Alan to lead into the last corner, and make sure that I was second. Alan took the bait, and I did an horrendous move on Robin to keep him behind me, and it all worked out as planned. My "famous" contract with Frank for the race, was that we would share any prize money, and he would buy dinner if I won. Happy days. | |
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• How did the opportunity to become involved in Steve McQueen's "Le Mans" arise? Did you meet McQueen himself?
Andrew Ferguson, ex team manager at Lotus contacted me. I believe that Parnelli Jones had recommended him to Steve as being the right man to scout out drivers. I met Steve on a daily basis. He was a very competent driver, and could, I think, have made a living at it. As a man, we didn't have a lot in common to talk about. He got on very well with Derek Bell, however. | |
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• What was it like driving that car with the massive camera on the front?
Pretty dire. Basically, a really nice car had become a pig to drive, as a result of the weight (there were three cameras on board), and the deleterious aerodynamic changes. | |
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• Throughout your career, you drove in both open wheelers and sports cars. Which did you prefer, and why?
Open wheelers by far. They were easier to aim, and sitting in the middle is nice. Sports cars always felt sloppy by comparison. | |
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• What made you decide to walk away from motor racing and take up flying instead?
I was past my 'sell by' date. I wasn't being offered good cars anymore, and when you've tasted winning, finishing in the middle of the pack doesn't do it. I took up flying because: 1. I had the right licences;Did it for 20 years, but never really liked it. Should have stopped sooner. | |
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• How have you spent the last decade or so? Do you still follow motor racing and Formula 1 in particular?
I have spent the last ten years or so, living in my campervan in southern Europe - Portugal, Spain, France & Italy, for the most part. It is a way of life that suits me well, minimising my contact with the monstrous and ever growing European bureaucracy. I have also visited the USA, Mexico, southern Africa & the Caribbean. I follow F1 on TV in a Pavlovian way, hoping that one day I will see something exciting. For entertainment, there is nothing to beat bikes - MotoGP, Super Bikes. Those people earn their money. Other than that I am out of touch with modern motor sport, and I can't really get interested in historic racing (ie. stuff I drove when it was new) as it seems to be the preserve of rich poseurs. Not all of them, of course. | |
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• And finally, what would you say were the best and worst moments of your motor racing career?
One of the best was winning the last race held at Lake Garda in Italy in a De Sanctis in 1966. The worst was the death of Piers in 1970. Still haven't come to terms with that. | |
| Click here to read Jonathan's Full Biography on our site! |
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